A different kind of oil question (moved)

Start oil threads here so they can be ignored and/or ridiculed by most of us (except for those hardcore few that live for that kinda stuff).
Forum rules
Here's the place for you to debate what oil is best. Post your oil related topics her so we don't clutter up the other sections. Most people avoid oil threads like the plague.
User avatar
Mr Wazzock
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 5520
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Boston, UK
Contact:

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by Mr Wazzock » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:35 pm

Beastmaster wrote: I was surprised to see an oil labeled for a specific design of engine. I kind of figured that for the average use it would make little or no difference but wanted to ask the experienced folks.
I interpreted it as meaning an engine with flat cam followers, as opposed to roller type - ergo needs high ZDDP content.

But yes interesting that everyone is supposed to know that a V-twin is that type of engine ...

But just FYI, not if it's a later big-bore Moto Guzzi V-twin which has roller tappets .. :?
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

hotflash44
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4676
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by hotflash44 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:29 pm

Mr Wazzock wrote:
Beastmaster wrote: I was surprised to see an oil labeled for a specific design of engine. I kind of figured that for the average use it would make little or no difference but wanted to ask the experienced folks.
I interpreted it as meaning an engine with flat cam followers, as opposed to roller type - ergo needs high ZDDP content.

But yes interesting that everyone is supposed to know that a V-twin is that type of engine ...

But just FYI, not if it's a later big-bore Moto Guzzi V-twin which has roller tappets .. :?
ZDDP for old school flat tappet cams is required in the break in process of old engines,you can destroy a cam in minutes without ZDDP at startup after a rebuild. Not sure how Urals survive maybe the loose tolerances. here in the USA ZDDP is very low 1200 ppm or less but isnt a issue with modern roller type engines. some people like to buy ZDDP and add to the oil on older engines. Wouldn't be surprised in Europe ZDDP is still in high quantity in motor oil, could be wrong. anyway ZDDP a interesting and long thread online. :cheers:
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

RC20
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 1322
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am
Location: Anchorage AK

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by RC20 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:01 pm

I really like the Mobil 20-50 in the transmission, cheaper than other premium oils. I just use Castrol 20 50 in the engine never had any oil related issues.
Back in the day Castrol was the cycle oil of choice.

I never had engine oil issues, I did have environmental issues with cold starts. In the old days we just changed the oil more often. Other than cold the same would work, but why change it more often if you don't have to?

An option is to use VW Oil Spec 505. Why? Its the only approved oil for the Diesel (2004 and latter) models.

they went to a Unit injector, the only way to power it (with that setup) was to add a lobe on the cam. Not much room as the valves were optimized.

the answer was a very high EP synthetic. Regardless of use, its a 10,000 mile oil change interval ON A DIESEL and from VW in the book.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

User avatar
Emoore
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by Emoore » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:21 pm

I run Castrol 20w50 in engine and Milwaukee twin 25w60 in transmission.
No problems yet.
Ernest
2012 Ural T Olive (Roulette)
2011 Patrol (OTTO)
Yamaha FZ07 ( My need for speed )

Wake Forest, NC

John Wayne - Life's Hard. It's Even Harder When You're Stupid.

User avatar
Mr Wazzock
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 5520
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Boston, UK
Contact:

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by Mr Wazzock » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:52 pm

No ZDDP is in decline in Europe also. Story I got is it damages catalytic converters so has been reduced. Similarly we have to find a high ZDDP oil (e.g. "classic") or put an additive in.
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

User avatar
Emoore
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by Emoore » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:39 pm

Mr Wazzock wrote:No ZDDP is in decline in Europe also. Story I got is it damages catalytic converters so has been reduced. Similarly we have to find a high ZDDP oil (e.g. "classic") or put an additive in.
Lucas makes a classic car oil that is supposed to be the highest zink available.....so there web site says.
But you can still buy Zink additive for the same reason, classic cars have flat tappets like we do.
Zink=good.
Ernest
2012 Ural T Olive (Roulette)
2011 Patrol (OTTO)
Yamaha FZ07 ( My need for speed )

Wake Forest, NC

John Wayne - Life's Hard. It's Even Harder When You're Stupid.

hotflash44
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4676
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by hotflash44 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:18 pm

Mr Wazzock wrote:No ZDDP is in decline in Europe also. Story I got is it damages catalytic converters so has been reduced. Similarly we have to find a high ZDDP oil (e.g. "classic") or put an additive in.
Obviously the Ural engine doesn't require high amounts of ZDDP ,even though its very similar to old engines of the past that needed ZDDP, especially at the critical first half hour of break in. the Ural of modern manufacturer must have reduced this need metallurgy maybe??? Here in the US modern engine builders that sell crate engines require a special break in oil or they wont warranty the build. long boring threads on the subject. :cheers: PS like you stated ZDDP will gum up catalytic converters,and the EPA/government really doesn't care about classic cars or any engine that needs the additive.
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

hotflash44
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4676
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by hotflash44 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:35 pm

Emoore wrote:
Mr Wazzock wrote:No ZDDP is in decline in Europe also. Story I got is it damages catalytic converters so has been reduced. Similarly we have to find a high ZDDP oil (e.g. "classic") or put an additive in.
Lucas makes a classic car oil that is supposed to be the highest zink available.....so there web site says.
But you can still buy Zink additive for the same reason, classic cars have flat tappets like we do.
Zink=good.
many oil companies hide the amount of ZDDP and label their cans in such a way to make you think its high in ZDDP, truth be known in the good old days before cats 1200 PPM was the norm but its more like 800ppm now,and will be zero soon, such a small market for ZDDP lovers. :cheers: PS im not a oil expert only a classic car owner that was researching the ZDDP issue for my car.
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

User avatar
Emoore
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by Emoore » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:48 pm

When I first started on SS, I asked what oil to use, the answer I got was "Yes, use oil".... Lol.
I just went with what my Ural book Said, that was 20W50 Castrol oil. Only thing I changed up was the transmission, from 20W50 to 25W60 like I said.
I have found when dealing with oil questions, everyone has there pick. As long as you feel good about using it, then ride on...lol
I have enjoyed this thread. Always learn new things from other people's questions.
Ernest
2012 Ural T Olive (Roulette)
2011 Patrol (OTTO)
Yamaha FZ07 ( My need for speed )

Wake Forest, NC

John Wayne - Life's Hard. It's Even Harder When You're Stupid.

User avatar
Mr Wazzock
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 5520
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Boston, UK
Contact:

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by Mr Wazzock » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:39 am

hotflash44 wrote:and the EPA/government really doesn't care about classic cars or any engine that needs the additive.
^ Yes.

Ditto re additives (or not) in gasoline, e.g. ethanol. Your fuel hoses are the wrong type? (too old) carbs getting crudded up? Floats swelling? Well tough titties, your fault for still having them. :P

-
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

hotflash44
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4676
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by hotflash44 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:31 am

Mr Wazzock wrote:
hotflash44 wrote:and the EPA/government really doesn't care about classic cars or any engine that needs the additive.
^ Yes.

Ditto re additives (or not) in gasoline, e.g. ethanol. Your fuel hoses are the wrong type? (too old) carbs getting crudded up? Floats swelling? Well tough titties, your fault for still having them. :P(Yeah, progress likes to steam roll over the old technology, but we try to fight against the new chemicals that you know will be found in the future to be bad for the environment to. believe it or not the new floats and fuel lines are sort of ethanol resistant, like the hardened valve seats that were needed when the lead was taken out of our gas. seems the authorities are always messing with the stuff us old guys like!) :cheers:

-
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

bikenut
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:53 am

Re: A different kind of oil question

Post by bikenut » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:22 am

Beastmaster wrote:
Good read, thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:

It explains the differences quite well,

•V-Twin Motorcycle
•Metric Motorcycle
•ATV/UTV
•Dirt Bike

I'm guessing that of the models they listed, we're closest to the V-twin
Hey NP it’s nice to be able to contribute, not often that I can.
I agree, the boxer is closest to a v twin towers think to
Fraser
/14 Patrol
/Shovelhead Chopper
Couple of unfinished projects

Post Reply