Wheels not in the same plane

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
Forum rules
Here is the place for you to ask questions about or share your experiences about servicing or repairing your Ural or Dnepr. Please post topics concering modifications or accesories in the "Modifications and Acessories" section. Please post oil related questions in the "Oil Threads" section.
Post Reply
Vato
New Member
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:11 am
Location: Excelsior, MN

Wheels not in the same plane

Post by Vato » Thu May 07, 2020 4:44 pm

I have 2019 GU with 1500 miles. This my second ural, I have owned Urals for 5 years and do my own wrenching. The '19 has always pulled right on a flat straight road at 40 mph with the throttle lock on. I have redone the alignment several times and it has improved. But, not neutral letting go of the bars and it is immediately heading for the ditch. Current setting are - Toe in 9/16" at end of tires, Lean out 2.4 degrees. Sidecar is level side to side.

Today I was rechecking the alignment and I noticed the lead edge rear wheel is 1/4 " out heading to the right. Measured from the rim and I rotated the wheel to check trueness. Now I know why it pulls right.

Has anyone had this problem? Bent frame, bent swing arm, or poor assembly?
If it was a chain drive an easy fix but.....?

I do have a warranty but I'm afraid they will have it forever.

Thanks

User avatar
Lmo
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 5348
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:19 pm
Location: Pismo Beach via So. Indiana

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by Lmo » Thu May 07, 2020 7:08 pm

I do have a warranty but I'm afraid they will have it forever.
Or it will pull to one side forever...
the lead edge rear wheel is 1/4 " out heading to the right. Measured from the rim and I rotated the wheel to check trueness.
Sorry, I don't understand your meaning.

Motorcycle is leaning away from the sidecar 2.4°(which seems like more than needed (to me)).

Are you saying that the rear axle might be canted to the right (as viewed from above)?
Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

Vato
New Member
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:11 am
Location: Excelsior, MN

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by Vato » Thu May 07, 2020 7:47 pm

[/quote]

Or it will pull to one side forever... LOL


Are you saying that the rear axle might be canted to the right (as viewed from above)?
Yes

RC20
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 2175
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am
Location: Anchorage AK

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by RC20 » Thu May 07, 2020 7:53 pm

Vato:

My take is this is the single most vexing issue (alignment and pull) on the newer Urals, probably plagued all of them back to 1041, but in Russia in the mud who knew? And until they got where they would go more than 45, well men were men, and real men just get more muscles (or something like that)

There are other reports on non alignment (mine appears to be slightly off as well and yes I have some right pull issues though I got most of it worked out.

There is a recommendation that if it goes right you add more lean though you are quite far over.

How are you fore and aft for level (various placed you can put a level on the frame, Torpedo up top, cross bars under of the outside run there as well.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

User avatar
Snakeoil
Order of Suvarov
Order of Suvarov
Posts: 4704
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:45 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by Snakeoil » Thu May 07, 2020 8:39 pm

There have been reports in the past here about rear wheels not being straight relative to forward motion. FD pretty much controls the position of the rear wheel. So, you can do some measurements to determine if the swingarm is tweaked. Measure from center of axle to center of swingarm pivot. If okay, could be swingarm pivot points are not perpendicular to axis of frame/direction of travel.

Having measurements to make your case may help with your dealer discussion.
Regards,
Rob
Proud member of the Peanut Gallery
2000 Ural Tourist
40 Pilots, 122 Mains
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

User avatar
jaybird
Order of Suvarov
Order of Suvarov
Posts: 3009
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:41 am
Location: The foothills of the Forked River Mountains, West Barnegat NJ (Do It In The Pines!) 08005

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by jaybird » Thu May 07, 2020 9:56 pm

There have been instances of the swing arm being improperly assembled , if you search around on here you can see where some people have shimmed it with washers.
I would utilize the warranty.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
Etc.

rougaroo
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 3910
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:58 am
Location: NC

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by rougaroo » Fri May 08, 2020 9:19 am

Definitely a warranty issue, but an interesting geometry problem.

If your pusher heads 1/4" towards the right but is true on the axle, that points to the swingarm or the frame. One idea might be to measure from a left-side motor mount to the left-side swingarm, center-to-center, then do the same on the right. Have to be pretty accurate, though, because it wouldn't take much to create a 1/4" offset. 1/4" offset at the tire edge is only 0.00328" at the axle.

If the motor mount-to-swingarm distance is the same, then check the swingarm bolt to axle measurement the same way.

If the wheel is true, something has to have shifted the axle alignment. Pure speculation on my part but bad weld, maybe someone backed into you on the left beam of the bike?

Interesting problem-

Rougaroo
2003 Tourist - lotsa upgrades
2004 Troyka - work in progress

User avatar
Mr Wazzock
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 6038
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Boston, UK
Contact:

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by Mr Wazzock » Fri May 08, 2020 11:43 am

If the front of the pusher is angled to the right, it would make the rig steer left surely? Image
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

Vato
New Member
New Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:11 am
Location: Excelsior, MN

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by Vato » Fri May 08, 2020 12:32 pm

The sidecar is only level side to side. All that I have read/videos show side to side level. I will level front to back and repost.

User avatar
Kaliram
Comrade Colonel
Comrade Colonel
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:01 pm
Location: Woodland Park, CO

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by Kaliram » Sat May 09, 2020 9:24 am

I’ve had three Urals, 2012, 2016, and 2019, and they all have the pusher tire cockeyed to the right. Jason at Ural HQ doesn’t readily admit to the problem, but did mention that they’re going to outsource the frame mfg. in order to make a better aligned frame.

With all my bikes, i have just set the toe-in using a straight edge on the right side of the pusher only, which is the way all other sidecar outfits do it. . It will be about 1/2” off to the right of the front tire.

....then there is the c. 1 degree difference in the lean out of the front and rear tire! I just set the lean-out measures off the rear brake rotor.
Current ride: 2019 Ural Gear Up, O.D. Green (“Jyoti”)
Blasts in the past: 2016 Ural Gear Up ("Shanti ")
2012 Ural Gear Up ("Tootles")
2009 KLX250, 2009 KLR650, 2004 BMW R1150GSA, 1966 Honda 305 SuperHawk

“Your life comes with a lifetime guarantee.”

Image

User avatar
Lmo
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 5348
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:19 pm
Location: Pismo Beach via So. Indiana

Re: Wheels not in the same plane

Post by Lmo » Sat May 09, 2020 5:46 pm

The sidecar is only level side to side
The sidecar frame may be 'level' but is the sidecar WHEEL perpendicular to the road.

My sidecar frame is not level, but I have the chair set up with the wheel perpendicular.

edit
Bike side.JPG
Side car side.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

Post Reply