Update: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
Forum rules
Here is the place for you to ask questions about or share your experiences about servicing or repairing your Ural or Dnepr. Please post topics concering modifications or accesories in the "Modifications and Acessories" section. Please post oil related questions in the "Oil Threads" section.
backpacks_got_jets
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am
Location: Middletown, CT

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by backpacks_got_jets » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:40 am

VWK75S wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:09 am
backpacks_got_jets wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:30 pm
i basically had a cup with a hole in it and the shaft as separate pieces.
When you removed the old one was the center mounting screw loose?
John

No it was secure. The cup was detached from the central cylinder
Joe Civitello
2007 Ural Tourist
My dog is cooler than your dog.

stagewex
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 7251
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:45 pm
Location: New Rochelle, New York

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by stagewex » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:55 am

It's tough to diagnose from your audio clip, better from your description. I say that because I have a 2007 and that whine does not sound any different than my rig does though louder because of it coming from my computer speakers. I don't notice it when riding because there are all sorts of other noises going on.
If I can I'll take a short video clip later in the day and post it here.

As to mechanic and shop give WheelSport in New Rochelle a call and ask for Jose in Service. They are a Ural dealer but not any type of mega dealer or even a specialty dealer. They probably only sell 2-3 Urals a year as their main product is Yamaha. But they work on all brands of bikes and became a dealer because they felt they are so easy to work on, especially the pre-EFI models. Formerly a BMW dealer in the 1960 thru 1980's. Small joint, family owned. I'd call them more of a motorcycle shop than a motorcycle dealer. I happen to be heading over there today to pick up a few parts for my TW200 and give New Years Greetings. I'll mention they might get a call from you. Jose threw a new clutch in for me over the Summer and fixed my neutral light (way in the gearbox fix, not a simple adjustment) which hadn't worked in 9 years. He does very nice work.
Stagewex

Current Herd all running amok:
2019 Honda CRF450L (Elec Start)
2008 Vespa 150S (Elec & Kick Start)
2007 Ural Patrol (2WD, Elec & Kick Start)
2006 Honda "Big Ruckus" PS250 (Elec Start)
1991 Honda XR250L (Kick Start Only) *NOT running amok, out for Bottom & Top-End Rebuild.
1986 Yamaha BW200ES (Elec & Kick Start)

List what you "have", keep the others in your precious memory bank.

backpacks_got_jets
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am
Location: Middletown, CT

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by backpacks_got_jets » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:24 am

stagewex wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:55 am
It's tough to diagnose from your audio clip, better from your description. I say that because I have a 2007 and that whine does not sound any different than my rig does though louder because of it coming from my computer speakers. I don't notice it when riding because there are all sorts of other noises going on.
You know. Like I said earlier, I can't remember how it sounded before the accident because I had the bike for less than 6 months before the failure. Now it's been out of my hands for almost as long as I was riding it.

The more I watch the video the more I feel like it's not an unnatural sound out of the bike. I'm going to run down and jump on it and feel/listen to it myself today or tomorrow.

The vid of your bike would be helpful.

Thanks!
Joe Civitello
2007 Ural Tourist
My dog is cooler than your dog.

stagewex
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 7251
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:45 pm
Location: New Rochelle, New York

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by stagewex » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:31 am

backpacks_got_jets wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:24 am
stagewex wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:55 am
It's tough to diagnose from your audio clip, better from your description. I say that because I have a 2007 and that whine does not sound any different than my rig does though louder because of it coming from my computer speakers. I don't notice it when riding because there are all sorts of other noises going on.
You know. Like I said earlier, I can't remember how it sounded before the accident because I had the bike for less than 6 months before the failure. Now it's been out of my hands for almost as long as I was riding it.

The more I watch the video the more I feel like it's not an unnatural sound out of the bike. I'm going to run down and jump on it and feel/listen to it myself today or tomorrow.

The vid of your bike would be helpful.

Thanks!

For peace of mind and if you are uncertain anyway, have someone look at it or at least compare right next to. Theirs some CT. riders up your way that I have ridden with a couple times. Hopefully one or two of them will read this post and chime in. If not look for "New England Meet-Ups", Andy & Mike (Stamford) are not terribly far from your location. Andy is up your way I believe. Their rigs are newer but really with a Ural, what does that mean :)
Stagewex

Current Herd all running amok:
2019 Honda CRF450L (Elec Start)
2008 Vespa 150S (Elec & Kick Start)
2007 Ural Patrol (2WD, Elec & Kick Start)
2006 Honda "Big Ruckus" PS250 (Elec Start)
1991 Honda XR250L (Kick Start Only) *NOT running amok, out for Bottom & Top-End Rebuild.
1986 Yamaha BW200ES (Elec & Kick Start)

List what you "have", keep the others in your precious memory bank.

WEGUNTER
Commissar
Commissar
Posts: 2959
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:12 am

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by WEGUNTER » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:32 pm

I think if it were me I would go ahead and pull the alternator and replace those bearings and grease them with krytox. I really could not discern anything from the video either, but it is always better to be safe than sorry. There is a video and instructions floating around here somewhere. It was not that hard.

backpacks_got_jets
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am
Location: Middletown, CT

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by backpacks_got_jets » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:39 pm

WEGUNTER wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:32 pm
I think if it were me I would go ahead and pull the alternator and replace those bearings and grease them with krytox. I really could not discern anything from the video either, but it is always better to be safe than sorry. There is a video and instructions floating around here somewhere. It was not that hard.
That's likely my next steps after I get the bike back in my possession.
Joe Civitello
2007 Ural Tourist
My dog is cooler than your dog.

stagewex
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 7251
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:45 pm
Location: New Rochelle, New York

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by stagewex » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:38 pm

Here ya go. Audio at cold-start, at 2 minutes and fully warmed up at 5 minutes. I tried to get the camera as close as possible to lose the distraction of the mufflers and garage echo. Remember we are all hearing what our computer speakers want us to hear.

If anything and at the very least the advice to pull the alternator and replace the bearings and grease them with krytox is a good one. Or at least do the grease portion. Your shrill "sounds" do not sound any different than what I hear on an exact same year and engine (26,000kms). Doesn't matter what model, they are all the same engines.

Good Luck and Happy New Year

Stagewex

Current Herd all running amok:
2019 Honda CRF450L (Elec Start)
2008 Vespa 150S (Elec & Kick Start)
2007 Ural Patrol (2WD, Elec & Kick Start)
2006 Honda "Big Ruckus" PS250 (Elec Start)
1991 Honda XR250L (Kick Start Only) *NOT running amok, out for Bottom & Top-End Rebuild.
1986 Yamaha BW200ES (Elec & Kick Start)

List what you "have", keep the others in your precious memory bank.

User avatar
Snakeoil
Order of Suvarov
Order of Suvarov
Posts: 4657
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:45 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by Snakeoil » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:56 pm

Yup, Stagewax's vid sounds about the same as the OP's to me, too. I tend to think that the amplification of bringing the phone closer to the engine is misleading in these vids.

Just thinking here, since these engines do tend to be a bit on the noisy side, it might not be a bad idea to start a thread of recordings of engines running. It would help folks like the OP make a better determination if their engine is making a bad noise or just being a Ural. As folks encounter noises that later turn out to be a true problem, post that video along with the explanation of what was later found to be causing it. I'm now wishing I'd recorded my engine when the front bearing was going bad.
Regards,
Rob
Proud member of the Peanut Gallery
2000 Ural Tourist
40 Pilots, 122 Mains
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

backpacks_got_jets
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am
Location: Middletown, CT

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by backpacks_got_jets » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:36 pm

Ok so finally got her back home.

Once i heard the bike for real it is definitely not normal. High pitched whine and metallic rattling sound coming from what seems like the alternator

She was able to drive but the whine and rattle persisted along with some electrical issues

Engine is strong and seems to be running well otherwise


Heres the newer better vid. http://imgur.com/a/19DUNrC

From hearing it and reading some comments here my next suspect is the alternator.

Any more thoughts?
Joe Civitello
2007 Ural Tourist
My dog is cooler than your dog.

jeffsaline
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:04 am
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by jeffsaline » Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:27 am

Would someone using Krytox be kind enough to share which one they are using? Looking at a website it looks like GPL 223 or GPL 205 would work well. Cost I was finding was $47.52 for a 2 oz. tube.

Thanks,

Jeff
Jeff Saline
2010 Gear Up
-Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick Two
-Just because something isn't true, no reason you can't believe it. Hub McCann Second Hand Lions
-Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

User avatar
Mr Wazzock
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 5991
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Boston, UK
Contact:

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by Mr Wazzock » Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm

backpacks_got_jets wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:36 pm
From hearing it and reading some comments here my next suspect is the alternator.

Any more thoughts?
Only one way to be certain, take it off and give it a good coat of looking at. :D

Certainly does sound squeally.

I think you need to mark the adaptor housing so that it goes back onto the crankcase in exactly the same place, as it's adjustable to get the gear mesh right.
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

backpacks_got_jets
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am
Location: Middletown, CT

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by backpacks_got_jets » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:16 pm

Mr Wazzock wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
backpacks_got_jets wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:36 pm
From hearing it and reading some comments here my next suspect is the alternator.

Any more thoughts?
Only one way to be certain, take it off and give it a good coat of looking at. :D

Certainly does sound squeally.

I think you need to mark the adaptor housing so that it goes back onto the crankcase in exactly the same place, as it's adjustable to get the gear mesh right.
Yep. that's the plan for this weekend I think.
Joe Civitello
2007 Ural Tourist
My dog is cooler than your dog.

User avatar
S 854
Commissar
Commissar
Posts: 5057
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:44 am
Location: Big Sky Country

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by S 854 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:53 am

FWIW... back in 2010, with around 20k on the odometer, my alternator adapter began it’s high-pitched death-whine...

At that time Krytox was big on discussion on SS... and was still rather spendy...

Being the frugal (read: “cheap buzzard”) that I am, I took a different course...

I stopped at the local bearing hut in Denver and had a rather lengthy discussion with the counter guy... I had brought my disassembled adapter with me and had the luck of chatting with another motorcycle guy (he showed me his daily commuter- a Whizzer)...

Anyway, I left with two Nachi 6004 2nse bearings:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YNW6ZQ2?ta ... th=1&psc=1

Fast forward 10 years and 80k... the Nachi bearings are still going strong...

Back when I bought mine, there was a change taking place with the seal material on the bearings and the stock at the bearing warehouse was a mix of old and new... the counter guy made sure I received the updated material which was more heat resistant than the material previously used... it was easy to see the difference... the old seals were black, updated seals are rust colored as seen in the Amazon photo above...
'07 Arctic: The Russian Raucous Ship

Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out...

User avatar
S 854
Commissar
Commissar
Posts: 5057
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:44 am
Location: Big Sky Country

Re: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by S 854 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:15 pm

Snakeoil wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:40 pm
Regarding the adapter bearing failures... I polished my shaft to a precise slip fit into the bearings. I believe if that is how they were all built, bearing failures in the adapter would be greatly reduced if not eliminated.
I got to thinking about my adapter rebuild... IIRC the shaft had been scored a bit from the original bearing failure... I didn’t have the equipment to precisely polish the shaft (and still don’t) but I do recall using some fine emery cloth to remove the witness marks...

Could be Snakeoil’s on to something here... and my choice of bearings may have little to do with the durability of my repairs...

Just dumb luck on my part? Dunno... if I could only locate that parallel Ural universe these questions would answer themselves...
'07 Arctic: The Russian Raucous Ship

Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out...

backpacks_got_jets
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am
Location: Middletown, CT

Re: Update: Finally Got it started. Weird noise. Need advice.

Post by backpacks_got_jets » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:52 am

https://imgur.com/a/am86MnT

Took apart the whole timing system and I think i've gotten to the issue.

bearing came loose from the drive adapter, worked it's way into the timing gears and blew everything up

Anyone got an alt drive housing they don't want?
Joe Civitello
2007 Ural Tourist
My dog is cooler than your dog.

Post Reply