Oh Bollocks!

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
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vetsurginc
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Oh Bollocks!

Post by vetsurginc » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:50 pm

46500 km and Vasily had an attack of the bad engine sounds. Riding 30 km home from breakfast started getting whiny noise, rpm dependent, but engine responding and pulling like normal. Then started to have draggy clutch signs at stoplights. Started to get slight knocky sounds. Got home and confirmed (as I did before starting out) good engine oil level and clean oil(at least grossly- didn't drop the pan). Couldn't get neutral with engine on, although clutch still releasing enough to shift.

I was hoping it would be the throw out bearing and there was transmission oil leakage at the actuater rod hole. But alas, when I pulled that, the bearings and assembly seemed ok. When I started it with the actuator out, same noise, like a rod knock.

Ok. Pulled valve covers. Rockers and valves solid. But, in the right cover, some half mm bits of a aluminum. Crap. Time to call Gene. Suspect I'm in for a rebuild.
Doug
2011 GearUp Vasily (Васи́лий) Main 125, idle 38, Raceway needles, and stock exhaust, MKIII air filter
2010 R1200RT Gustav
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Bendog02760 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:57 pm

Good details and walkthrough of symptoms, best of luck getting it resolved. Curious if your diagnosis is correct and what the final bill is.
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Claus
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Claus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:06 am

symptoms of a broken crank or collapsed main bearing. Fingers crossed, it´s something else and a harmless defect.
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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vetsurginc
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by vetsurginc » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:52 am

Claus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:06 am
symptoms of a broken crank or collapsed main bearing. Fingers crossed, it´s something else and a harmless defect.
Yeah. Main bearing is my bet. Oh :bs:
Doug
2011 GearUp Vasily (Васи́лий) Main 125, idle 38, Raceway needles, and stock exhaust, MKIII air filter
2010 R1200RT Gustav
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Snakeoil » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:57 am

Claus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:06 am
symptoms of a broken crank or collapsed main bearing. Fingers crossed, it´s something else and a harmless defect.
Agree. The whining sound was my first clue of a bearing going south. I was hoping it would just get louder for you with no other symptoms. That would have probably made it a main bearing. But knocking tends to make me think it is a big end rod bearing. That would mean a new crank is required. The clutch being affected also points to a main going bad. Maybe the rear.

Hope it is a main bearing. Means labor will be your biggest cost. I'd suggest you replace every bearing in the engine with quality bearings. Now is the time.
Regards,
Rob
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Mr Wazzock » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:33 am

I concur with the above three, the "draggy clutch" made me think flywheel is gone out of true. (?) Wild guess but the "aluminium bits" could be bearing cage.
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Claus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:39 pm

Mr Wazzock wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:33 am
Wild guess but the "aluminium bits" could be bearing cage.
The bearing cage is of steel. No idea where the bits are coming from. But with lose parts inside engine, there´s always a chance to flay an aluminium surface inside.
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Mr Wazzock » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:54 pm

True! I was thinking of big end rollers.
Mike H
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by vetsurginc » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:45 pm

Thanks for all the thoughts. Ken is picking it up for Gene on the 17th. I'll post as info comes back. Good point about "while it is apart ...". Bearings and all other goodies that can be replaced with better components, like the new cranks.

Looks like it will be north of a grand, which made me wonder about worth of repair versus parting out. But Ken was of the opinion that there was still plenty of value left in the bike, so worth doing. I'm retired from career one, so I have to watch what I spend. I've already got my BMW RT up for sale, thinking I could finance a new bass trombone for my second career (4 orchestras and some jazz groups and not much money). But this comes first. Wish I could justify one of the 2019's, but it just isn't in the cards.
Doug
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2010 R1200RT Gustav
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Claus » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:17 am

Well Doug, I suppose it will definately be noth of a grand. But it´s a 2011 model and I´m with Ken. There is still plenty of value left in the bike. And the trombone can be transported much more secure and convenient in the tub than on a R1200RT :mrgreen:
The only Motorcycle in my fleet I could not imagine to sell is my Ural. (and over the years I spent 6 or 7 times the price I payed for it alone for for parts since I bought it in 1993, it must be something like a love-hate ralationship )
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Snakeoil » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:27 am

So, while we are waiting to hear from Gene what the innerds look like in the OP's engine...
...I payed for it alone for for parts since I bought it in 1993...
I never picked up that you owned a 650 Claus. Given all the horror stories that seem to be going around about the short life of 5 piece cranks, how many kms do you have on your current crank? Every had a 650 crank fail?
Regards,
Rob
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Claus » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:59 am

Rob I have around 95 k clicks on the clock and it´s the 3rd crank (this crank has worked for about 65 k clicks in a customer´s engine before I put it into mine some 25 k clicks ago. Warsaw Pact saying: only used material is tested material). My bike has had every single defect bad rumors would say about what could go wrong. Anyway, I bought it in St. Petersburg in the shop in 1993 and have it since. 95k is not really much in 26 years. But it has been sitting in the shed sometimes for a couple of years when I got fed up.
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Picture is from 2005 on a beach in northern Denmark. I have been all around Europe with it and used it as a commuter during the first 5 or 6 years.
The only remaining parts from original are the motorcycle frame and the side car frame. Everything else has been replaced during service intervals.
(do you know the joke about the old bloke that claims his spade is over 90 years old and has been used by his grandfather? When asked how he did it, he answered: due to very good maintainance it´s like brand new. Sometimes I replace the handle and sometimes I replace the blade)
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by vetsurginc » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:47 pm

The journey begins. Ken from Holopaw picked up Vasily today. Now :lurker: , and pray.
Doug
2011 GearUp Vasily (Васи́лий) Main 125, idle 38, Raceway needles, and stock exhaust, MKIII air filter
2010 R1200RT Gustav
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by vetsurginc » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:25 pm

Well turned out to be bearing, crank and associated piston damage. They also replaced the clutch which while not bad, was more than half-way through it's life, and the engine was already apart so ideal time. Everything else still good.

Definitely north of a k, 2k for repairs and then the pickup (I'm 3 hours from Gene's so an all day trip for ken). Gah! Anybody want a 2011 GU that has a refurbed engine? Haven't had any takers on the beemer either.

I shouldn't really complain. 46k and this is the first real problem. I'm tempted to have ken deliver it back just so I don't have to do the break in miles bringing it home but that's another $300.
Doug
2011 GearUp Vasily (Васи́лий) Main 125, idle 38, Raceway needles, and stock exhaust, MKIII air filter
2010 R1200RT Gustav
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Re: Oh Bollocks!

Post by Lofty » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:29 pm

vetsurginc wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:25 pm
I'm tempted to have ken deliver it back just so I don't have to do the break in miles bringing it home but that's another $300.
I paid my selling dealer $100 for a two-hour delivery drive. He had [previously] cautioned strongly against highway miles & speeds during the break-in period, and that advice was echoed on this forum. More to the point, I didn't yet own a motorcycle trailer (I do now). So, I gritted my teeth and handed him the C-note. The price of convenience.
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