Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
Forum rules
Here is the place for you to ask questions about or share your experiences about servicing or repairing your Ural or Dnepr. Please post topics concering modifications or accesories in the "Modifications and Acessories" section. Please post oil related questions in the "Oil Threads" section.
wildhair523
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:11 pm
Location: Winneconne, WI

Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by wildhair523 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:44 pm

About 995 miles and 3 days into a planned 5 day trip on my 2013 Ural T - I get a bad noise from the drive-train on a downhill glide. Then it stops - no noise, no loss of power, no vibration - nothing. Seem OK. I cruise along for a bit - another metal on metal noise. I drop it in first at the stop light, pull away and more horrible noise - I cannot shift into 2nd. It appears to be in neutral, but the drive shaft is spinning. Engine sounds fine - but I have no power at the rear wheel. Pull over to the side of the road - I see a threaded portion of a bolt sticking out of the right side of the FD case. A closer look and there is a 2nd bolt sticking out of the same side of the case in front of the axle.

I haven't taken it apart yet and have not ever removed the final drive. The bike has been pretty trouble free for the 2+ years I've owned it and 10,000 +/- miles I've put on it. I haven't dug into the manual yet. I've rebuilt engines in my younger days, and can follow directions in English. ;-) I assume .........
A. Bolts that hold the crown gear most likely sheared off and went ricocheting around inside the case and
2. The gears inside are probably trashed, so new gears, bearings and seals would all be in order. Right now looking for advice as to repair (rebuild) it myself, take it in or just get new or rebuilt final drive and swap it out.

It's a 1WD 2013 driven mostly on paved roads and 1/2way decent gravel roads.

What's the level of difficulty in rebuilding and reattaching it? Parts availability?
Can the case be repaired by a skilled welder or best to replace?
Is it smarter to just get a rebuilt one and install that? Where would be the best place for that?

Any issues-problems-tricks that would help are appreciated.

I also noticed a slight wobble in the driveshaft near the rear of the transmission - is that a related problem or a different problem? I have a video, but I can't seem to upload video.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Born OK the First Time!
"Do not go wherever the path leads. Instead, go where there is no path and leave a trail " Emerson

2000 Yamaha RSV
2013 Ural T - "Trece Suerte" - Lucky 13

User avatar
Lokiboy
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 3924
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by Lokiboy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:56 pm

New shell, new gears, probably not a lot of useful parts inside. Looks like new/used FD is in your future. Price everything out to get the most bang for your buck.
2011 Gear Up - "Erika"
Yorktown, VA

Mains: 127, Idle: 40, Needle: 1 shim
MKIII air filter
90,000 km and counting

User avatar
harryball
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1494
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:53 am
Location: Georgia
Contact:

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by harryball » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:58 pm

If the case were whole, I'd say rebuild it. But I'm not so sure buying new (or at least used) isn't a better option. But you won't know for certain until you open it up, if a new outer case is all the that's needed and somehow the bolt just came off the ring gear damaging nothing else, I'd probably rebuild it.
Last edited by harryball on Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
---
2017 - cT - "Georgia" My wife's rig.
2017 - M70/Retro, Sigmund. My wife's other rig.
Robert
http://HabitatForBats.org - Give a bat a home!

jeffsaline
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:04 am
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by jeffsaline » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:07 pm

If it was mine I'd want to see the inside of the housing before making a final decision on repair or replace. But from what I can see I would try welding the holes closed. If it works, fine and if it doesn't work, it was broken anyway. If I was going to have to pay for welding I'd probably want to know the cost of a new or used housing before spending any money on welding.

Best,

Jeff
Jeff Saline
2010 Gear Up
-Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick Two
-Just because something isn't true, no reason you can't believe it. Hub McCann Second Hand Lions
-Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

User avatar
jaybird
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:41 am
Location: The foothills of the Forked River Mountains, West Barnegat NJ (Do It In The Pines!) 08005

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by jaybird » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:47 am

Those 1wd covers are relatively inexpensive, unless you can weld it yourself it may be more economical to replace.
Without seeing the inside, I can't comment on the gears, but if you want to get back on the road quick, or if you're cheap or short on cash, you can probably do this;
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48920&p=616880&hili ... ld#p616880
BTW, I'm still running that final drive and it's now patched in two places like that.
I look forward to seeing what the inside of your final drive looks like.
Good luck :cheers:

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
Etc.

wildhair523
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:11 pm
Location: Winneconne, WI

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by wildhair523 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:35 pm

Never had this happen before - I called my local Ural dealer - Metro Motorcycle in Neenah, WI to see about a replacement or fixing my final drive. They refused to work on the bike or sell me parts because I "murdered them" on a Soviet Steeds Facebook post 2 years ago.

Here's the post that murdered them - 12-21-2017
"........ I took my Venture in for tires and wanted to talk to them (Metro Motorcycle) about the Urals. They didn't seem that interested in spending any time with me at all. Like they didn't really want to sell one. I've called there a couple times looking for a used one - rarely return my calls or e-mails. Customer service is definitely not the strong suit there.
I figured I'd use Metro only as an absolute last resort."

So I guess I have to go elsewhere for any parts and service - I've been blackballed at Metro Motorcycle. St. Croix Ural - very helpful - they have one for $960. Steve's speed shop in Madison, very nice & courteous, too - but nothing on hand & no parts.
Born OK the First Time!
"Do not go wherever the path leads. Instead, go where there is no path and leave a trail " Emerson

2000 Yamaha RSV
2013 Ural T - "Trece Suerte" - Lucky 13

User avatar
jaybird
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:41 am
Location: The foothills of the Forked River Mountains, West Barnegat NJ (Do It In The Pines!) 08005

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by jaybird » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:09 pm

wildhair523 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:35 pm
Never had this happen before - I called my local Ural dealer - Metro Motorcycle in Neenah, WI to see about a replacement or fixing my final drive. They refused to work on the bike or sell me parts because I "murdered them" on a Soviet Steeds Facebook post 2 years ago.

Here's the post that murdered them - 12-21-2017
"........ I took my Venture in for tires and wanted to talk to them (Metro Motorcycle) about the Urals. They didn't seem that interested in spending any time with me at all. Like they didn't really want to sell one. I've called there a couple times looking for a used one - rarely return my calls or e-mails. Customer service is definitely not the strong suit there.
I figured I'd use Metro only as an absolute last resort."

So I guess I have to go elsewhere for any parts and service - I've been blackballed at Metro Motorcycle. St. Croix Ural - very helpful - they have one for $960. Steve's speed shop in Madison, very nice & courteous, too - but nothing on hand & no parts.
I wouldn't worry about it, with the shipping network we have in this country today, you can buy parts from whomever you want.
I personally would start with Terry Crawford and Jon Heindl, but that's my preference. If not in a hurry I'd look to ebay and/or some of the european sellers.
I'd probably want to get back on the road pretty quick, so in the short term I'd probably pull it apart and try to butter it up enough to ride again.
The one wheel drive final drive is much less complex than the two wheel drive final drive, plenty of support here and elsewhere, pull it apart and see what it looks like, you can probably fix it yourself.
BTW, the final drive will often work a good long time with some chipped teeth, not so much if the teeth are completely missing, the final drive in my GearUp has been plugging right along for a long time with chipped gear teeth, so take it apart, see where you stand.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
Etc.

wildhair523
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:11 pm
Location: Winneconne, WI

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by wildhair523 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:06 pm

I called Terry. He just called me back - what a wealth of info! Nice guy, very helpful, lots of tips and advice. He's got the parts for me or he'll rebuild it pretty reasonably.
And Heindl is closed on Mondays I found.
I think I may get the replacement from St. Croix and then rebuild the broken one for a spare.
Waiting to hear from Chris tomes at Vostock.
Born OK the First Time!
"Do not go wherever the path leads. Instead, go where there is no path and leave a trail " Emerson

2000 Yamaha RSV
2013 Ural T - "Trece Suerte" - Lucky 13

RC20
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 933
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am
Location: Anchorage AK

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by RC20 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:49 pm

They refused to work on the bike or sell me parts because I "murdered them" on a Soviet Steeds Facebook post 2 years ago.
Yep, kill the messenger. Don't fix your operation and get it up to snuff.

I had a misunderstanding with Pacific Northwest in Ferndale, I just wanted fluids changed but what got wrote down was the initial chekc. Nice to slip me in, but I would have been ok with a no, I can tell Ural I tried.

Ok, my mistake, it also had a MIL and heading to AK, better get it corrected (tht was warranty and they got the sensor shipped right away so Ural is on the ball) $350 for all of it though. They also noted the battery was weak which I had seen as well (not gone) but did not contract Ural about it. Ok, got the booster XP-1and its ok in warm weather.

Part of the initial check are the valves, but no valve cover gaskets on hand - then I had to drive down to find out what the delays was . Order had got lost. Ok, in person, make the call, express it up.

But the outer head gasket is not right (I was going over fasteners and you can't see the gasket in the middle).

Not leaking but not good workmanship either. So I will document and contact them when I get back.

If they are any good they will offer some money back and not repeat, if not then ......
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

User avatar
darkhorse
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:02 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by darkhorse » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:33 am

I am not sure of the compatibility between the years, but there is a listing for a one wheel drive final drive on the forum:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54254
2001 Ural Deco Classic
PowerArc Ignition

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

wildhair523
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:11 pm
Location: Winneconne, WI

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by wildhair523 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:30 pm

darkhorse wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:33 am
I am not sure of the compatibility between the years, but there is a listing for a one wheel drive final drive on the forum:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54254
That's for a 650 - but thanks. I got one ordered from St Croix HD-Ural. Super customer service - very helpful. I called today to see if was on back-order (Heindel and NE Ural both said they were waiting for FDs - NE Ural has 3 powder coated ones in stock). Tony in the parts Dept called out to WA - they said they had 1 in stock so he had them put his name on it. I should have it next week.

I'll install the new one, then either rebuild the old one myself or send it Terry Crawford and have him rebuild it. He's got al the parts in stock. then I'll have a spare to use or sell.

https://www.stcroixural.com/ - St. Croix HD-Ural - nice folks, excellent customer service, reasonable on prices.
Born OK the First Time!
"Do not go wherever the path leads. Instead, go where there is no path and leave a trail " Emerson

2000 Yamaha RSV
2013 Ural T - "Trece Suerte" - Lucky 13

brookscooper
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:41 pm

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by brookscooper » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:59 pm

The FD on my '04 grenaded a few years ago. I recall a 2016 spec (brand new) FD was under $400 if my memory serves. New part was necessary since my failure lunched both sides of the case and the ring gear!
2004 Black / Chrome Tourist
Portland, OR

User avatar
BigJames
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 5744
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:15 pm
Location: Macon, Ga. USA
Contact:

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by BigJames » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:31 am

I keep a spare FD with my favorite gear ratio in the garage and ready to be shipped if I need it on the road... Oddly enough, the dealer in St Croix is a good friend of my HD dealer in Macon, Ga. That's a pretty good sign...unfortunately, he has scared my HD dealer from being a Ural dealer...sigh...
BigJames
19 Ural Gear Up
11 Ural Retro (108K and counting)
95/79 Bural Sportsman (Myrtle)
88 HD FLHS Watsonian Cambridge (232K and counting)
51 HD Servicar

wildhair523
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:11 pm
Location: Winneconne, WI

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by wildhair523 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:03 pm

Got the drive off and opened it up. Looks like 1 bolt last it's head and ALL the rest stripped out of their holes. No damage to the pinion gear, bearings or even the teeth on the ring gear. Chucks of case pieces, lots of metallic swarf inside the case.
Looks like I need a new ring gear with better bolts, and a new case. All the splines are fine, nothing else appears damaged.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Born OK the First Time!
"Do not go wherever the path leads. Instead, go where there is no path and leave a trail " Emerson

2000 Yamaha RSV
2013 Ural T - "Trece Suerte" - Lucky 13

User avatar
lendrinkard
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: Peninsula, Ohio

Re: Final drive breakdown - repair or replace help

Post by lendrinkard » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:23 pm

Man that is a mess :(
2012 Gear up
130/40 jet, 3 shims, no mid-pipe, drilled slider, 2013 Branch pipes, all LED lights

Post Reply