damaged trans spline repair?

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
Forum rules
Here is the place for you to ask questions about or share your experiences about servicing or repairing your Ural or Dnepr. Please post topics concering modifications or accesories in the "Modifications and Acessories" section. Please post oil related questions in the "Oil Threads" section.
Post Reply
hotflash44
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4677
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

damaged trans spline repair?

Post by hotflash44 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:51 pm

i have noticed several members that have damaged splines caused by worn out clutch teeth, how is this issue addressed? when are the worn spline groves/teeth on the trans to far gone and if slightly gouged can they still work? :?: PS i did use the search function without success.
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

User avatar
Lokiboy
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4143
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by Lokiboy » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:53 pm

I had significant gauges in the spline, but I have nearly 100,000kms and it still functioned normally. I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

If it did need to replace it’s really not too difficult. Price for a new spline is around $350 plus I’d pay the dealer to install the bearing which is another $50.
E6BB968E-9B75-48B7-BB2B-2DDEF82C8316.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2011 Gear Up - "Erika"
Yorktown, VA

Mains: 127, Idle: 40, Needle: 1 shim
MKIII air filter
100,000 km and counting

hotflash44
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4677
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by hotflash44 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:29 pm

Lokiboy wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:53 pm
I had significant gauges in the spline, but I have nearly 100,000kms and it still functioned normally. I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

If it did need to replace it’s really not too difficult. Price for a new spline is around $350 plus I’d pay the dealer to install the bearing which is another $50.E6BB968E-9B75-48B7-BB2B-2DDEF82C8316.jpeg
thanks for the info, surprised the gauges didn't affect the clutch teeth. :cheers:
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

User avatar
Lee Pape
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4593
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:30 am
Location: Perry, Iowa

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by Lee Pape » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:55 am

The condition is called fretting or fretting corrosion. There is really nothing to do to stop or prevent it with a dry clutch set-up. I don't know if bikes with wet clutches have the same problem though. If you do a search you will find several threads dealing with fretting.
We may not have it all together,
But, together we have it all.


2007 Tourist "The un-named-one"
Riding and working on Urals since 2000.

User avatar
BinDerSmokDat
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 3610
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 2:35 pm
Location: South Jersey NJTP exit 6

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:23 am

I have used the thinnest coating of Jet Lube MP-50 on my trans splines and that seems to be keeping them alive.

It is a high temp, high moly paste grease.
I clean the hell out of the splines with solvent and let it dry thoroughly.
Then I use a flux brush and paint on the thinnest coating possible.
I'm talking a large pea-sized amount painted into and onto the splines and shaft.
It should look like matte black chrome when you are done.
No globs or excess to fling onto the plates.

Whenever I have any of the slip joint or wheel splines exposed for repairs, I do the same.
Again a very thin coat on the splines. For wheel and 2wd shaft splines I add Mobile 1 red synthetic grease to keep water and grit out.

I just installed the third clutch and the transmission splines look good, but I'm probably burning mine up more from off-road wheel slippage, so less stop-start/downshifting wear and tear than a high mile street bike.

But I attract a lot of crud in all my splines from mud and dunking in dirty water; the MP-50 definitely protects against the corrosion and wear.

hotflash44
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4677
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by hotflash44 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:39 am

Lee Pape wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:55 am
The condition is called fretting or fretting corrosion. There is really nothing to do to stop or prevent it with a dry clutch set-up. I don't know if bikes with wet clutches have the same problem though. If you do a search you will find several threads dealing with fretting.
thanks, went to search and the word fretting did the trick. think this is a good conversation to have as several members are having to replace their clutches for the first time. seems they (the fretted splines) can somewhat see another day if lubed. sure would suck big time to feel the need to spend big money to replace the shaft after each clutch redo. :cheers:
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

User avatar
Albuquralque
Order of Victory
Order of Victory
Posts: 19684
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:46 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by Albuquralque » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:02 am

I wouldn't fret over it...........
"Put a little gravel in your travel"


Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM), 2014 Patrol

User avatar
Lofty
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 1371
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:17 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by Lofty » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:17 pm

Lee Pape wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:55 am
I don't know if bikes with wet clutches have the same problem though.
But for the Ural, all of my motorcycles have had wet clutches. They are usually linked to and receive power from the crankshaft via a specialized gear.

If or when the [wet] clutch is removed, the careful owner will inspect the gear teeth for pitting. He will also be very careful when replacing the clutch basket, also, so as to correctly align said crankshaft gear, as well as the oil pump idler gear. :)

Which is sometimes manufactured from plastic. :x

Image

The foregoing photo was taken when I safety-wired the Neutral Sending Unit switch on my Suzuki. Note the plastic gear. The factory screws on the NSU switch are notorious for being under-tightened at the factory. The heat of regular engine operation makes thread-lock a poor solution, necessitating said safety wire. Should one of those screws come loose and find its way into the crankcase, the owner will hear his engine make interesting and expensive sounds.
Inventory:
2018 Ural Gear Up
2015 Suzuki DR650
1991 Bianchi Osprey
1952 Columbia RX-5 ('87, NOS)

Subsnowden
Comrade General
Comrade General
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:54 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by Subsnowden » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:54 pm

The clutch shaft says $350 however Ural will only sell the $650 clutch (main) shaft assembly. I just went through this with Terry Crawford. I didn’t like my splines chewed up especially since I was putting a new clutch in. It turned out my transmission had more problems so now I have a rebuilt transmission. I guess it’s a little comforting that people experience this without apparent failures
Jon
Nomad
2015 Ural Gear Up

User avatar
jaybird
Order of Suvarov
Order of Suvarov
Posts: 2646
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:41 am
Location: The foothills of the Forked River Mountains, West Barnegat NJ (Do It In The Pines!) 08005

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by jaybird » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:06 pm

Subsnowden wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:54 pm
The clutch shaft says $350 however Ural will only sell the $650 clutch (main) shaft assembly. I just went through this with Terry Crawford. I didn’t like my splines chewed up especially since I was putting a new clutch in. It turned out my transmission had more problems so now I have a rebuilt transmission. I guess it’s a little comforting that people experience this without apparent failures
Look on the bright side "They're better than they used to be" :lol:
So what do we blame random premature failures on now, vodka soaked Russians, or a global clusterluck?
Glad to see you're back in the saddle, I hope it wasn't too painful.


Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
Etc.

User avatar
windmill
Order of Victory
Order of Victory
Posts: 7925
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:17 am
Location: Kent, Wa 98042

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by windmill » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:29 pm

jaybird wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:06 pm


Look on the bright side "They're better than they used to be" :lol:
So what do we blame random premature failures on now, vodka soaked Russians, or a global clusterluck?
Glad to see you're back in the saddle, I hope it wasn't too painful.


Happy trails,
Jaybird
It seems globalization has had a negative effect on the quality of all mechanical items. I inherited some Craftsman, and Skill power tools that are older than I am and they still work flawlessly. Those same brands today are fair at best.
There's also lots of evidence makes like Ural and Enfield are moving up one side of the quality curve, while others like BMW and Honda are slipping down the other side of the curve. I suppose they'll all meet in the middle some day soon.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

hotflash44
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4677
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by hotflash44 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:35 am

windmill wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:29 pm
jaybird wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:06 pm


Look on the bright side "They're better than they used to be" :lol:
So what do we blame random premature failures on now, vodka soaked Russians, or a global clusterluck?
Glad to see you're back in the saddle, I hope it wasn't too painful.


Happy trails,
Jaybird
It seems globalization has had a negative effect on the quality of all mechanical items. I inherited some Craftsman, and Skill power tools that are older than I am and they still work flawlessly. Those same brands today are fair at best.
There's also lots of evidence makes like Ural and Enfield are moving up one side of the quality curve, while others like BMW and Honda are slipping down the other side of the curve. I suppose they'll all meet in the middle some day soon.
spot on observation, noticed the same thing,esp the Craftsman screw drivers of late. :cheers:
2016 gear up asphalt grey, name Seryy Medved ,Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

vodka driver
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:49 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by vodka driver » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:30 pm

I have a clutch or gearbox problem. In second gear only, on acceleration if feels like the clutch slips then solidly engages. My dealer (Holopaw) told me that the fretted flywheel splines causes this so the flywheel, pressure plate, intermediate plate, and clutch plates have all been replaced. The problem has not gone away. I've adjusted the shift mechanism and all should be well. I noticed some fretting on the gearbox input shaft when replacing all of those parts. Could that be the problem with this thing? It's a 2010 Gear Up with 50,000 kms.
2010 Gear Up--Roksana

User avatar
Snakeoil
Order of Suvarov
Order of Suvarov
Posts: 4478
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:45 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: damaged trans spline repair?

Post by Snakeoil » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:45 am

Anything that would cause the clutch plate(s) to hang up rather than go into full engagement could cause this. But it should be an issue in any gear, not just going into 2nd. My guess is your technique is in play here. Perhaps your shift and throttle timing are a little off for that first shift for some reason. Change your technique and see what happens. You might be giving it throttle before you have completely released the clutch lever and she is slipping a tad and then grabbing. If you cause something like a clutch to slip and keep force on it, it will tend to continue to slip.

The fretting, a fancy name for notching, mentioned should only be of concern if notches are severe enough to affect operation. With a torsional load on the clutch, the clutch spline will want to stay in the notch, holding the plate in a position and that could prevent full engagement. But again, that should not be gear sensitive. The clutch has no idea what gear you are in.

You see notches in clutch baskets. Sometimes they are bad enough to cause problems. Other times they are not.
Regards,
Rob
Proud member of the Peanut Gallery
2000 Ural Tourist
40 Pilots, 122 Mains
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

Post Reply