C5 install questions

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
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africalight
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C5 install questions

Post by africalight » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:09 pm

Hello all,

So I must be having a rough week because I cannot wrap my head around the c5 install. Has anyone done a video or step by step with pictures? Something more in-depth than the 12 min YouTube video? I am looking for the wiring hookups after the unit is on the bike.

Also is the stainless disk supposed to be offset from the p/a piece? Mine is sitting flat on it and I am afraid the spacer isn’t long enough. I really don’t want to pay for this thing again.

Thanks,
Ryan


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Lmo
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Re: C5 install questions

Post by Lmo » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:41 pm

No instructions came with the unit?

My install thread, for what it's worth > http://www.sovietsteeds.com/forums/view ... =5&t=47975
is the stainless disk supposed to be offset from the p/a piece?
C5 Ignition Installation Manual Ural/Dnepr http://www.c5ignitions.com/uploads/1/5/ ... e_2017.pdf

edit- if this is the 12 minute video you're referring to it's all I needed to install the C5.

The optical disc needs to be centered inside the scanner, more or less. It doesn't have to be perfectly center. It also cannot rub on anything.
c5.jpg
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Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

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C5 install questions

Post by africalight » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:14 pm

Ok so spacer isn’t long enough for sure. Working on a shim for that.

I have the instructions that came with it. I have also reviewed the video multiple times. I am looking for where the wires go by sight not by wording. For instance, which wire connects to the plug (two red wires terminated together) off the alternator?


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Last edited by africalight on Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rougaroo
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Re: C5 install questions

Post by rougaroo » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:48 pm

There are two spacers supplied with the C5 that are not the same. You may have put the wrong one in first -

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C5 install questions

Post by africalight » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:06 pm

I got a long spacer and a short one. Long one in first (per video instructions) then disk and short on on top followed by bolt with washer.

I shimmed out the long spacer and got the disk to sit evenly between the arm and the unit.




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Re: C5 install questions

Post by Lmo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:03 pm

IIRC, I think I also needed to add a .015" spacer between the supplied bushing and the disc.

This is pretty much all you need. I couldn't find a more readable "original" pdf version of it, but if you click on the image it will enlarge.

Neither of the red wires are attached to the alternator ... the red wire from the optical reader goes to the ignition switch. The "other" red wire runs from the coil to the battery + ... I don't know why you could not run them both to the ignition switch.

White from optical reader goes to the coil.
Black from optical sensor goes to ground.
Blue from optical sensor goes to ground (when switched)
Brown from optical sensor goes to ground (when switched)
Green is for tachometer trigger
C5 Diagram.jpg
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Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

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Re: C5 install questions

Post by Lmo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:07 pm

I think if you download the pdf file from C5 it will print clearer than this. http://www.c5ignitions.com/uploads/1/5/ ... e_2017.pdf
Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

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Re: C5 install questions

Post by rougaroo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:16 pm

Be very careful to follow their directions on setting the timing. DO NOT CONNECT the trigger wire to the coil (white/yellow in their picture) before setting the timing. You risk smoking the ignition unit if you do.

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Re: C5 install questions

Post by africalight » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:02 pm

Ok so called c5 and figured out where I was going wrong. I had assumed that I would be using the existing connections from where I had removed my old coil. He told me to skip the stock wiring and just wire up new connections to the battery for the coil.

The switch business is still a bit of a bother but I will put one in anyways. It seems with each repair/replacement that I cannot find NOS parts for that the bike is getting more complicated. I haven’t had to switch between maps for 12 yrs and I rode just fine. I guess I will just pick a map and leave the switch in place. Iowa doesn’t have a lot of mountains just nice lazy flat-ish plains to cruise slowly:)

Once I get back in town I will post and update on the progress.

Thanks,
Ryan


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Re: C5 install questions

Post by rougaroo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:26 pm

If you want to automate the switch search for "VOES" on this forum. You can install a Harley vacuum switch that'll switch the curve automatically under load.

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Re: C5 install questions

Post by n3303j » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:09 am

This system has 4 curves. To obtain Stock timing the user grounds out both control lines. The other three curves are accessed by grounding only A, grounding only B or ungrounding both A & B. That's why they suggest a rotary switch for accessing all possible curves. A VOES would allow access to only one of the alternate curves.
Ron Cichowski

1998 Moto Guzzi V11 EV STOCK
1996/2014 Ural Sportsman.
Severely Upgraded, Modified and Remanufactured.
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Re: C5 install questions

Post by rougaroo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:03 am

Ron -

Both PA and C5 have said that using all 4 curves is overkill, though you can certainly do it if you just want one more thing to obsess over. And if you had a rotary switch how would you know when to switch among the curves and which would be most useful?

If you look at the table in both the PA and C5 installation manuals they show the 4 curves in order from “basic Ducati” to “most retarded” with two in-between - call them a, b, c, and d. The PA guys told me that if you do mostly on-road riding with some hills and loads, choose the “normal” curve and then skip one, so a & c. If you’re like Cob and do a lot of off-roading, also under load, go with b & d.

With the VOES when your vacuum drops as the engine goes under load, the switch triggers to the more retarded curve. That's using the engine itself to optimize the choice. Some folks have installed an LED idiot light just to let themselves know it is working correctly. Otherwise, most folks who’ve installed the PA/C5 say they don't really notice much of a difference.

But you are perfectly correct in that a VOES only offers two choices vs a rotary switch's four. The real question is why you'd want to fool with four.

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Re: C5 install questions

Post by n3303j » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:13 am

I don't. I have run all PA with the signal wires grounded. Never a problem in 80,000 KM. I'm 99.9% on road rider. Just mentioning the slight differences on the newer unit versus the earlier one. As a point of interest the newer unit only switches the coil on/off. The older one provided full coil power. Makes for less strain on the module running in the hot box.
Ron Cichowski

1998 Moto Guzzi V11 EV STOCK
1996/2014 Ural Sportsman.
Severely Upgraded, Modified and Remanufactured.
1977 Moto Guzzi 850 T3-FB ALMOST STOCK

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Re: C5 install questions

Post by Lmo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:45 am

I have mine rigged for max advance "postion A (brown=grounded, blue=grounded)" and retarded, "position B" (brown=ungrounded, blue=grounded)

After 3,000 miles of fiddling with it, I've restored to just leaving in in "position B". Starts easily, eliminated all the popping and farting at start up, runs great on the freeway @ 60 mph, fine around town.
Lew Morris
Dnepr w/ '06 Ural Drive Train
C5 Power Arc
125/42 jets
Drilled slides/
.030" shims

1973 BMW R75/5 (original owner)
1947 HD FL (long gone, forever regretful)

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Re: C5 install questions

Post by africalight » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:27 pm

Right so got some more time lately to wrench.

Think I have the ignition installed and set correctly. Tried to take it out for a quick shakedown ride. Fires up and idles fine, now I am getting some backfires when I give it some throttle.

Going to redo the valves and carb balance next. Hopefully I will get some computer time and post pics of my setup


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