Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Are ya having a problem with your rig? We'll try to help. Share your tech tips and experiences here. Dr. Billy Glaser, author of the "Unofficial 750 Ural Service Manual" site myural.com, is moderating this section.
Forum rules
Here is the place for you to ask questions about or share your experiences about servicing or repairing your Ural or Dnepr. Please post topics concering modifications or accesories in the "Modifications and Acessories" section. Please post oil related questions in the "Oil Threads" section.
rougaroo
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Posts: 3695
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:58 am
Location: NC

Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by rougaroo » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:00 pm

Some of you who have dug into a schematic may have wondered why Ural shows four wires going through the connector and into the headlight but we only have three.

Turns out that in Europe there is a small 4w amber bulb inside the headlight. The circuit it is on is the running light circuit, so the amber light can be on independent of the headlight itself. Apparently in Europe the running lights can be left on when parking, as in off the side of a road, etc.

That feature isn't DOT approved in the US and Canada, and the retailers I talked with said that Hella won't ship any of those lights here because of that.

Explains that loose yellow wire in the headshell and the missing wire in the headlight connection, though.

Rougaroo

There is an original Hella on E-Bay right now that shows the place for it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE- ... 5634c09044
Image
2003 Tourist - lotsa upgrades
2004 Troyka - work in progress

User avatar
Mr Irish
Order of Suvarov
Order of Suvarov
Posts: 3061
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:57 pm
Location: Morton Grove, IL

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by Mr Irish » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:03 pm

Good to know! Thanks.
Brian

Opposing symmetry on a regular basis….

2006 Ural Gear Up ~капиталистического участника
1998 Ural Deco ~Воскресенье езда мотоцикл
~Ranked 51 out of 124 on Ural National Rally Day 2011


My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.~Ayn Rand

Who is John Galt?

User avatar
Niteblues
Commissar
Commissar
Posts: 9944
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:26 pm
Location: Silver Creek GA

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by Niteblues » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:21 am

Aah yes, and that yellow wire can be a lifesaver here in the US of A. If you move it to the connector that goes into the low beam, you can power your headlight in a pinch when other electrical gremlins are present. When my relays went south, that's what I did to get home. Worked perfectly- no melted wires, no fires, etc.
Scott

2004 Ural Patrol

"You can ride farther in one hour than you can walk in a day"

"Media bias contributes to erosion of the perception of truth." Tanya Marcum

User avatar
Tarka
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1204
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:35 am
Location: England

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by Tarka » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:11 am

Just so you know....we don`t have 'running lights'.


What we have is selectable side lamp (usually 5w and clear)....also called pilot lamp..... (the small one you don`t have) then the main hi/lo beam lamps.

That`s why we have a 3 position right side lighting switch giving......lights off...side(pilot) lamp....main lamp.


The side(pilot) lamp also comes on when the ignition key is turned to parking position.

Note also that the tail lamps come on when the side(pilot) or park position is selected.
Achieving distance by letting the World turn beneath me.

650 Ural Roustabout combo yr 2000 (with Dnepr leading link front end)
750 Ural Dalesman combo yr 2004 (rare maroon/cream with blingola chrome)
Plus nine non Ural solo bikes.

User avatar
S 854
Commissar
Commissar
Posts: 4667
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:44 am
Location: Big Sky Country

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by S 854 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:42 am

When we lived in Italy, (late '70's) it was illegal to drive downtown with your headlights on... you needed to use your 'pilot' lights.

This was also the time when motorcycle manufacturers were required to have daytime running lights. The MP's on the post decreed, "if you wanna ride your motorcycle, you gotta have your lights on AT ALL TIMES!"

Caused quite a bit of stir between the Carabenierie and the 'U.S.' riders... :evil:
'07 Arctic: The Russian Raucous Ship

Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out...

rougaroo
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Posts: 3695
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:58 am
Location: NC

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by rougaroo » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:00 am

Tarka-

So what are the laws/customs that mandate use of the pilot light vs. low beam?

My presumption on parking came from time spent in Germany. The cars there had a selectable switch to leave on the amber lights on just the left or right side of the car. Especially good when leaving your car on a narrow street. I think Mercedes still has them.

Rougaroo
2003 Tourist - lotsa upgrades
2004 Troyka - work in progress

User avatar
TheWildOne
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1777
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: Arlington, VA

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by TheWildOne » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:28 pm

Ah! A question I never thought to ask is being answered in this string.

Why do virtually all my m'cycles' (1974-present) ignition switches have OFF, ON and 'other' positions? Guess it's a 'legacy' from other countries' requirement of having a parking light position.
But I don't think there has ever been a law - national, anyway - that we have that tiny clear light in the headlight unit. So rather than equip ours with different ignition switches ($) than Europe, & probably other countries, come with, they just leave it as it is, but omit the light-in-the-light (more $).

I've probably actually _used_ that 3rd, taillight-only position a couple of times after fifty years and well over fifty motorcycles, but, well, somebody here's tag-line says something about "better to have it and not need it than not have it and need it".

Sure. Why not.

2
'07 Ural Tourist
'08 "Volare" scooter/sidecar from Holopaw
+ about 15 2-wheelers from '59 to '86

rougaroo
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Posts: 3695
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:58 am
Location: NC

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by rougaroo » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:03 pm

Well the funny part for us is that not only is the wiring there, but the switch is, too. The right side handlebar switch in the Ural with the kill switch and electric start switch has that blank plate where the off-pilot-on light switch should be. But if you take the cover plate off or take the assembly off and look inside, you'll see that the switch is still there! What is missing is the switch handle that comes out of the slot. It can't be any cheaper to get the complete switch but just without the moveable handle and a cover plate.

I do remember a use for the third position on the ignition switch in cars when I was back in high school. Supposedly when the ignition was on "parking" the coil wouldn't burn up because of the constant charge to it, and it left you free to run the radio. Of course, "parking" had a whole 'nother meaning then, too.

Rougaroo
2003 Tourist - lotsa upgrades
2004 Troyka - work in progress

User avatar
TheWildOne
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1777
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: Arlington, VA

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by TheWildOne » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:13 pm

Well, first off, I'm pretty sure you'd find that the wires off that switch 'blank' go to the _main_ headlight, not the pilot.


Reminds me of my brand-new '78 Suzuki GS1000. '78 was the first year any m'cycles imported to the US _couldn't_ have a headlight on/off switch. (That and a whole bunch of other early safetycrat crappola.)
But on my GS, the whole switch mechanism _was_ in there; they just didn't paint the white dot on the "on" position by the switch .

On a lark, I got a small phillips screwdriver & took off the switch slider thingie. Lo & behold - they'd just cast a plastic tab/stopper on the slider so's you couldn't slide it to the "off" position. eXacto knife time. Cut that tab sucker off and voila - headlight on/off switch.
'Course in the next few years they made a whole new right handlebar switch cluster (like on my '81 GS1100) and there was no switch mechanism in or on there a tall.

As far as the 3rd position on cars, way I remember it was that your choices were 'ON', 'OFF' and 'ACC'. The third was for accessories (radio, etc.), so you wouldn't burn up the ignition points.

But that's just my memory at work.

ktwo

User avatar
BobM
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by BobM » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:28 am

Are you saying that if I get into the "hidden" switch below the kill switch, I can switch off the headlight? I just today finished setting up a total loss system and my next task is to be able to switch off the headlight (big amp user) and run with LED bar lights during daylight hours. If this doesn't do it, any suggestions as to the best way???

Many thanks,
Bob :)
BobM
Knoxville, TN
2013 Ural Tourist
2004 Suzuki Burgman 400

User avatar
Tarka
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1204
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:35 am
Location: England

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by Tarka » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:51 am

rougaroo wrote:Tarka-

So what are the laws/customs that mandate use of the pilot light vs. low beam?
The sidelamp(pilot) is a bit of a throwback to the 1970`s era where we used to have to just use sidelamps in built up areas and then use the proper headlamp on open roads.
Things got a bit crazy in the early 1980`s with cars having 'dim dip' headlamps on a kind of half brightness when on dip beam(low beam).....it was rather dangerous!

Dim dip is now a thing of the past and we don`t have an actual stated law defining the use of sidelamps other than when we may have to extinguish main headlamps in tunnels or if parked on unlit roads where techically the parking lamp should then be used which is of course the same as the sidelamp.

We now have a curious paradox here where pretty much all new bikes come with the headlamps permanantly on but we don`t have a compulsory daytime headlamp law !
Achieving distance by letting the World turn beneath me.

650 Ural Roustabout combo yr 2000 (with Dnepr leading link front end)
750 Ural Dalesman combo yr 2004 (rare maroon/cream with blingola chrome)
Plus nine non Ural solo bikes.

rougaroo
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Posts: 3695
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:58 am
Location: NC

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by rougaroo » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:49 am

BobM-

The switch appears to be a Domino 0040AB.5A.04-01: http://www.domino-group.com/en/catalogu ... aster=1967
Image

As Tarka said, the switch has three positions, off- pilot & running lights - headlight. When the headlight is on you control low beam/high beam with the left control as usual. If you take off the cover plate or unscrew the assembly and look inside, you'll see that the switchplate is still inside. What's missing is the selector knob. I haven't disassembled the entire thing, but my guess is that either the switchplate is jumped to permanently on, or the wiring to the switch is disconnected back at one of the connectors.

To get it to work you'd need to get or make a selector knob like the one in the picture. You'll see the contact points if you just look inside.

My real interest in this was to make a switch for the PowerArc advance switch out of this. It would make a very neat installation, and at a good place, close to the throttle cable.

Rougaroo
2003 Tourist - lotsa upgrades
2004 Troyka - work in progress

User avatar
BobM
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by BobM » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:51 pm

Thanks, Rougaroo. I'll order that switch and give it a try. Sounds like a quick solution to my problem.

Bob :)
BobM
Knoxville, TN
2013 Ural Tourist
2004 Suzuki Burgman 400

IAURAL
Comrade Colonel
Comrade Colonel
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:25 am
Location: Iowa City, IA

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by IAURAL » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:49 am

Bob, did you ever find a place to order that Domino switch? I had trouble finding an outlet from which to order. Thanks!
Steve in Iowa City,
2000/6 Tourist (transplanted into an older body!)

User avatar
Lee Pape
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2018
Posts: 4525
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:30 am
Location: Perry, Iowa

Re: Mystery Headlight Wire Resolved

Post by Lee Pape » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:52 am

Steve,

Your still alive!!! What was the trouble with your engine in June? Did you get it fixed?
We may not have it all together,
But, together we have it all.


2007 Tourist "The un-named-one"
Riding and working on Urals since 2000.

Post Reply