Pistol caliber carbines?

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plfinch
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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by plfinch » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:11 pm

I much rather prefer a rifle caliber pistol with folding stock... Current go-to gun is an IWI Galil Ace Pistol (actually the SBR model) in 7.62x39. I am not in CA and nearest neighbor is a few hundred yards away.

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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:12 am

This harkens back to that other thread about a "home defense" gun a while back.
Many people entertain visions of arming up and fighting off the invading hoards attempting to violate the sanctity of your castle.
That isn't reality.

You generally don't get a lot of warning in home defense situations, so the best gun is the one you have in your hand when you need it.

So get a pistol caliber carbine or a rifle caliber pistol, they are fun and have their niche.
But securely stashing one loaded and ready for use is a challenge.
It can't fit in a pistol safe, so now you are stashing it in a long gun safe.
Most don't keep a long gun safe in the places that a home defense gun will be needed, ie. in bedroom or near your "defensive position" in the home.

Try this...go from your living room watching TV or your bedroom lying down and time how long it takes to get to and then open your long gun safe... I'll wait.

I prefer a different strategy...
For true home defense, get a gun vault with the hand print cut out and manual push button combination (I don't trust electronics) containing the handgun of your choice and powerful LED light inside. This is ideally the gun you carry/use regularly so you know it like the back of your hand. You pick it up and your grip is instantaneous and your fingers know where the safety, mag release, etc. are instinctively.

Also, the gun your are depending on in a live or death situation should be the one you shoot the most.
We all have a finite amount of time to spend at the range and money for ammo.
If you are dividing up your range time between a long gun, pistol, carbine/rifle pistol and shotgun...which is your primary weapon?
Everyone wants the long gun or shot gun in their hand when SHTF, but the reality is the pistol is more handy and, hopefully, the gun you shoot the most.

And no offense to anyone, but "home defense" is the justification we ALL give, MYSELF included, for lusting after toys that go "pew-pew." But the visions we have of those extremely rare scenarios doesn't match up with reality.

OK, OK I'm way off topic...so the carbine I want is an HK USC in .45 ACP.
I have fired one and it just 'feels' perfect and while pricey, if you are TRULY worried about your life, what is an extra thousand or so?
But I don't/won't own one for the reasons stated above. ;)

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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by Niteblues » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:54 am

gun vault? safe? you sound like someone that lives in nj...
my hand gun is next to the bed on the nightstand with one in the chamber. my doors are locked, my doors are strong, and no one is coming in without making a racket. my house is secure.
oh, i do have a fireproof safe...that's where the ammo is. so if there is a house fire, the first responders shouldn't have to worry about stray rounds popping off while they're trying to put down the flames.

...are you even allowed to have an HK USC in nj?
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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by plfinch » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am

>>> You generally don't get a lot of warning in home defense situations, so the best gun is the one you have in your hand when you need it.

I don’t disagree at all with above statement, My EDC is a Springfield Mod 2 .45 that is on me or beside me whether home, in the car, on the bike, or out and about. And that would be my first line of defense. I did not think this was a home-defense discussion as much as the merits and choices of a pistol-caliber carbine.

I, personally, am one of those that had a bad experience with a Hi Point carbine. And I have since decided I prefer rifle-caliber SBRs with a folding brace or stock, over pistol-caliber rifles or carbines. This provides a weapon that easily fits in a backpack, has high magazine capacity, is short enough extended for close indoor operation, and is easily lethal out to 100 yards if needed. And, heck, my Galil Ace is a just plain fun to shoot. In the rare chance of a SHTF situation, I may have my .45 on me, but if at all possible, it will be the Ace in my hands.

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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:39 pm

Niteblues wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:54 am
gun vault? safe? you sound like someone that lives in nj...are you even allowed to have an HK USC in nj?
I sound like a responsible gun owner. :lol:
Having a gun on the nightstand all the time is not responsible, nor practical for most people who have kids, relatives, etc. coming and going from the house.
Having a fingertip combo vault IS responsible and puts the pistol at ones fingertips pretty quickly.

But you validated my point, the gun in your hand is the best self-defense weapon.
Most people won't have a carbine/PDW out in the open within arms reach on the night stand.
You can't legally carry it in most places, so you are pulling it out every time you are coming home and putting it in the safe every time you leave?

Yes, I can legally own the HK USC in NJ.

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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:00 pm

plfinch wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am
I did not think this was a home-defense discussion as much as the merits and choices of a pistol-caliber carbine.
I agree and admit I derailed things a little.
I just think people should be honest and say "I want gun X because they are fun and look cool" and not try to justify that it is for "self defense" and "home defense."

A decent pistol has all the range and control you need for any engagements at in-home distances.
My home is a 24 x 40 rancher, with basement.
The MAX line of sight shot in my home is 24 feet.
I can also argue that when shooting from left or right cover (corner of wall, doorway) I'm exposing MORE of myself with a carbine than with a pistol.

So for the sake of the original post...
In theory, any pistol caliber carbine should get the job done at in-home distances.
Two handles or larger stock versus a pistol should mean more accuracy, better control of recoil and faster sight picture recovery.
And since there is more control, less felt recoil than a pistol and the premise is home defense, go .40 and up on caliber.

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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by Msblu79 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:09 pm

All good points, I keep a G17 with light in my nitestand next to the bed and a Rem 870 with 00 buck shot in the closet near the door. I bought a Ruger PC9 carbine recently and like it a lot. I replaced the stock with a chassis setup & forend, pistol grip, and adjustable buttstock AND 30 round Glock mags. I could care less what that a$$hat Cuomo says, I will stand my ground and defend my home regardless, when the SHTF he won't be around to defend any of us. I live out in the country and have no children, when I called the cops a few years ago about a problem it took them 45 minutes to get to me, I can't wait for them, I'm on my own. :)
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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:04 pm

Msblu79 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:09 pm
...a Rem 870 with 00 buck shot in the closet near the door...
A few years back my wife was on the local town Facebook page that had a post from the local police telling people to be aware that two men who just escaped from the county jail a couple of towns over had strong ties to our town, so lock doors and keep an eye out.
Out of an abundance of caution, I took the Mossberg 500 out of the gun safe and propped it in a corner of my bedroom closet.
Then I promptly forgot all about it, went to bed and went about my business over the next few days.
I went to hang up some stuff in the closet, knocked the gun over without even seeing it and just about crapped myself when it hit the hardwood floor.

That's when I realized having an unsecured gun was probably more dangerous than any perceived outside threat.

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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by Lmo » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:27 pm

That's when I realized having an unsecured gun was probably more dangerous than any perceived outside threat.
+1 Even when there's no little ones around. We're often our own worst enemy...
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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by isldtime » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:26 pm

This thread kinda went sideways.
What happened to the fun PCC ?
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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by sidecarmike » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:06 pm

We've had a number of them over the years. I've had two HiPoint 9mm carbines. One became a housewarming present for a first time home buyer in a sketchy neighborhood.
The second one hung in the garage until my furnace guy offered to run a gas line from the house and hang a space heater for it.
Replaced it with a Rossi Circuit Judge that shoots both 45 Long Colt and 410 shotgun shells. Nice light weight five shot rifle.
1.jpg
Now my son brought over a Ruger PC. Weighs about twice what the Rossi does. Nice gun, though. It takes down into two pieces which makes it nice in the sidecar trunk.
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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by Desantnik-VDV » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:00 pm

Two Russian programmer coworker friends got Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm Carbine some 7 years ago. They both already had 9mm and .40 Beretta handguns.

When thee is a quiet home invasion at night while you are in sleep, once you wake up from your sleep you need time to focus and understand what's going on...if intruder standing in your bedroom there is not much of time or chance to react.

Home security/alarm can help to wake you. Gun safe is must ... to be safe from your significant other. :lol:

A few years ago one of our neighbors, who is a retired cop living with her boyfriend, had a police standoff situation from 10pm 'till 9am of next morning. She was defending the house from the inside. Cops threw flash and some chemical granades into the house. Bangs and gases. We closed our windows. She was holding her boyfriend as hostage inside the house. She finally gave up and was taken for psychological evaluation. We did not see her any longer around. He plywooded up his windows until new windows were installed... He is a retired cop as well...
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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by GoatTracks » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:22 pm

Msblu79 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:09 pm
I live out in the country and have no children, when I called the cops a few years ago about a problem it took them 45 minutes to get to me, I can't wait for them, I'm on my own. :)
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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by INSUBORDINATOR » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:42 pm

I went through a few PCC's - But I recommend the Slovakian made "Grand Power STRIBOG" 9mm Semi auto Sub-gun - with collapsible brace. Reliable, & amazingly accurate - due to the brace. Great reviews, & comparable specs to the Swiss B&T our special services just bought - but only 1/3 the price.
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Re: Pistol caliber carbines?

Post by plfinch » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm

Hmmm... Does any variant of a .30 carbine qualify as a PCC? Not quite a rifle cartridge, not quite a pistol cartridge. But built to meet similar requirements. I have 2, a fixed stock and a paratrooper model. For many years a .30 carbine was my only firearm serving every need from home defense to varmint control to deer hunting. Inland now offers the very interesting but way too expensive M30-P with 12” barrel and collapsible brace.

Peter

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