I'm a little bent.

Woe unto you that bought the first model year of a major remake, perhaps this section can help address any 2014 and later model Ural "imperfections". Here's a special section for folks with the latest rigs to discuss 2014 and later model-related topics such fuel injection, 3-wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering dampers, spin-on oil filters and other anomalies that don't belong on true Russsian motorcycle ;-P We've gone from using big hammers and greasy wrenches to needing computers and Ouija boards in order to fix our rigs.
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Please keep this section specific to issues pertaining to 2014 and later models such as fuel injection, sidecar and rear disc brakes and so forth. Ask general or non-2014 and later specific questions in the main Hammerin' & Wrenchin' section.
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Speedbump
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I'm a little bent.

Post by Speedbump » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:31 pm

Just got my wheel back from the shop. They swapped out the cracked rim for a good one I provided. $85 is a great price. But you get what you pay for....
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I guess the person who did the job didn't know that the spokes are "oriented", they most likely thought they were straight ones. Needless to say, most of my "bent" spokes are now straight. How much damage has been done and what do I (repair shop) needs replacing?
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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by cookiemech » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:56 pm

Glenn, I responded to your issue in the "What did you do to your Ural today" thread, hoping that there was distortion in the photo making the spokes look bent. It's not even my bike but it's giving me a headache, and likely you a bigger one.

Sorry to see.
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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by glebo » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:32 pm

I just can't believe a shop let that out the door...wow...

So much for craftsmanship /pride these days...
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Out of all the places I've been....this is one of'em...

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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by Snakeoil » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:44 pm

I'd have to have the hub and rim in front of me to be sure. But it would appear that the rim was not drilled to be laced to that hub. It is hard to be sure just from the photo, but it appears that the rim was drilled for a much wider hub. So, let's explore a bit.

If you have laced and trued wheels, you can pretty much tell how the wheel should be laced (spoke pattern, cross 1, 2, 3, 4) when you start. You may get fooled and have to start over because you were off by a hole or two. But you come to realize your mistake because as you progress, the spokes are either to long or too short. Your spokes are neither. So, that tells me they are using the proper pattern.

You wheel is laced using a cross 2 pattern, meaning one spoke crosses over two spokes on the same side. My 2000 Tourist uses a cross 1 pattern. Basically, each spoke on one side of the wheel makes an X with the spoke laced in the opposite direction. I went to the Ural site and see that the new bikes use a cross 2 pattern. That says you wheel is properly laced. So, my guess is the rim you bought was improperly drilled for your hub.

Where did you get your rim? He's the "got what you paid" for guy if I am right.
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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by Speedbump » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:01 pm

Snakeoil wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:44 pm
I'd have to have the hub and rim in front of me to be sure. But it would appear that the rim was not drilled to be laced to that hub. It is hard to be sure just from the photo, but it appears that the rim was drilled for a much wider hub. So, let's explore a bit.

If you have laced and trued wheels, you can pretty much tell how the wheel should be laced (spoke pattern, cross 1, 2, 3, 4) when you start. You may get fooled and have to start over because you were off by a hole or two. But you come to realize your mistake because as you progress, the spokes are either to long or too short. Your spokes are neither. So, that tells me they are using the proper pattern.

You wheel is laced using a cross 2 pattern, meaning one spoke crosses over two spokes on the same side. My 2000 Tourist uses a cross 1 pattern. Basically, each spoke on one side of the wheel makes an X with the spoke laced in the opposite direction. I went to the Ural site and see that the new bikes use a cross 2 pattern. That says you wheel is properly laced. So, my guess is the rim you bought was improperly drilled for your hub.

Where did you get your rim? He's the "got what you paid" for guy if I am right.
Well damn. Didn't even consider that the rim is a different part#. I used the rim off my old pusher, which had the larger hub. Thank you Rob for the insight. :brickwall:
Glenn³
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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by Mr Wazzock » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:19 pm

Holy sh!t. Image
I'd have to have the hub and rim in front of me to be sure. But it would appear that the rim was not drilled to be laced to that hub.
I tend to agree – I've got the almost identical issue with my BSA Bantam, rear wheel, got new stainless rims & spokes, the front went together no problem, but the rear is being a barsteward, on the second side (opposite brake drum) all the nipples bind in the holes, it appears that the holes were stamped wrong, they are angled in the correct direction, but at too great an angle. I'm having to reuse the old rim, which laces just fine with no problems (tried it today). Looking at the front again, it's nearly got the same issue but fortunately the nipples don't bind and will seat flush in the rim depressions when tightened (the rear ones won't! Each nipple head only touches at one point on its circumference. If I tighten them up and I'll get the above same effect).
Mike H
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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by stagewex » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:41 pm

Speedbump wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:01 pm
Snakeoil wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:44 pm
I'd have to have the hub and rim in front of me to be sure. But it would appear that the rim was not drilled to be laced to that hub. It is hard to be sure just from the photo, but it appears that the rim was drilled for a much wider hub. So, let's explore a bit.

If you have laced and trued wheels, you can pretty much tell how the wheel should be laced (spoke pattern, cross 1, 2, 3, 4) when you start. You may get fooled and have to start over because you were off by a hole or two. But you come to realize your mistake because as you progress, the spokes are either to long or too short. Your spokes are neither. So, that tells me they are using the proper pattern.

You wheel is laced using a cross 2 pattern, meaning one spoke crosses over two spokes on the same side. My 2000 Tourist uses a cross 1 pattern. Basically, each spoke on one side of the wheel makes an X with the spoke laced in the opposite direction. I went to the Ural site and see that the new bikes use a cross 2 pattern. That says you wheel is properly laced. So, my guess is the rim you bought was improperly drilled for your hub.

Where did you get your rim? He's the "got what you paid" for guy if I am right.
Well damn. Didn't even consider that the rim is a different part#. I used the rim off my old pusher, which had the larger hub. Thank you Rob for the insight. :brickwall:

Good Grief, that sucks. Suppose the guy lacing would have caught the mismatch somewhere along the way?
Then again... provided by the customer they probably assumed....


Buchanon Spoke & Wheel is (or could be) your friend. Best in the country:


These are their custom cut SS spokes for Ural rims. Incredible quality vs. anything that comes on a Ural and I don't care what year ya have. Will outlast the rig. Just provide the correct rim and hub.
IMG_3350.JPG
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Stagewex

Current Herd all running amok:
2019 Honda CRF450L (Elec Start)
2008 Vespa 150S (Elec & Kick Start)
2007 Ural Patrol (2WD, Elec & Kick Start)
2006 Honda "Big Ruckus" PS250 (Elec Start)
1991 Honda XR250L (Kick Start Only) *NOT running amok, out for Bottom & Top-End Rebuild.
1986 Yamaha BW200ES (Elec & Kick Start)

List what you "have", keep the others in your precious memory bank.

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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by RC20 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:49 pm

If you have laced and trued wheels, you can pretty much tell how the wheel should be laced (spoke pattern, cross 1, 2, 3, 4) when you start. You may get fooled and have to start over because you were off by a hole or two.
Some years back Had to replace an fuel injection pump on a 6 cylinder diesel engine.

Many may not know, but with a injection pump, they bend and twist the injection lines to the nozzles in the head around so they are all equal length so the timing is the same to all cylinders (nightmare to make a pump that timed each output to each cylinder, so while odd an easy answer to kink the lines around to make them all the same length. Some are longer than they need to be really but it works neatly)

So, I look at the lines and they all have a tag ID. Ok, I have the book, I don't need to mark them.

When I went to put back together nothing worked right, yep, the id tag warped on were wrong, random or? Took me hours to get the firing order, then figure out what line ran where and then how to run it and which line to run when through all the twists and curves. Arghhhhh.
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1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by windmill » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:18 pm

Speedbump wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:01 pm
Well damn. Didn't even consider that the rim is a different part#. I used the rim off my old pusher, which had the larger hub. Thank you Rob for the insight. :brickwall:
Glad I read the whole thread before I responded, as I see you know what the problem is now.


Rim for small universal hub, IMZ-8.1037-06117-05
Rim for the big drum style hub, IMZ-8.1037-07117-01
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by aduthie » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:46 pm

Ouch. I’ve tried to lace a hub and rim when the rim wasn’t drilled for the hub. I have no idea how someone could just keep cranking away at it instead of stopping and saying “something is wrong here.”

Buchanan can redrill the hub for a whole $20 (plus shipping both ways of course). Give them a call! And maybe the shop will relace it for you for “free” since they ignored the problems while forcing things to fit together, the first time...
Andrew Duthie / Nashville Motorcycle Repair / Nashville, TN

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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by windmill » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:03 pm

aduthie wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:46 pm
Ouch. I’ve tried to lace a hub and rim when the rim wasn’t drilled for the hub. I have no idea how someone could just keep cranking away at it instead of stopping and saying “something is wrong here.”

Buchanan can redrill the hub for a whole $20 (plus shipping both ways of course). Give them a call! And maybe the shop will relace it for you for “free” since they ignored the problems while forcing things to fit together, the first time...
Redrilling the hub won't work, the angle of the rims drilling is too wide radially. and laterally.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by Claus » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:37 am

The guy in the shop should have stopped lacing when it turned out to be a wrong rim for the hub. in fact, he should have seen that before he started to work. You realize it won´t work after just laying in 10 spokes or so.(if you know what you´re doing. If you don´t, you should not lace wheels)
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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by aduthie » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:07 am

windmill wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:03 pm
Redrilling the hub won't work, the angle of the rims drilling is too wide radially. and laterally.
Buchanan didn’t have any trouble with the one I encountered. (70’s Honda hub and a cheap rim from MikesXS, I think it was.) A case of a customer providing parts and asking us to lace them together, and us finding out the parts were incompatible. About ten spokes in, as Claus says, I called Buchanan for help, since it was obvious something was wrong. They said they could redrill the cheap rim to work with the hub. I’m not a wheel expert, so I can’t tell you what mental calculations they did before telling me to ship them the rim. So calling them in this situation seems like a safe next step to me. Worst they can say is “what’s a Ural?”
Andrew Duthie / Nashville Motorcycle Repair / Nashville, TN

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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by windmill » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:14 am

aduthie wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:07 am
windmill wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:03 pm
Redrilling the hub won't work, the angle of the rims drilling is too wide radially. and laterally.
Buchanan didn’t have any trouble with the one I encountered. (70’s Honda hub and a cheap rim from MikesXS, I think it was.) A case of a customer providing parts and asking us to lace them together, and us finding out the parts were incompatible. About ten spokes in, as Claus says, I called Buchanan for help, since it was obvious something was wrong. They said they could redrill the cheap rim to work with the hub. I’m not a wheel expert, so I can’t tell you what mental calculations they did before telling me to ship them the rim. So calling them in this situation seems like a safe next step to me. Worst they can say is “what’s a Ural?”
The greater than normal thickness of the alloy rim doesn't allow enough change in the angle of the spokes for them to line up with the wrong hub without bending no matter how the hub is drilled.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

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Re: I'm a little bent.

Post by stagewex » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:09 am

Buchanon can and will do/make anything custom for a motorcycle, race car, airplane.
But that’s getting away from your mismatched hub & wheel issue and do you really want something so custom like a Ural wheel.
They certainly would have caught on to it though before completing the entire job. They had rejected two (2) prior rims I had sent them saying that “yes, we can compensate for minor imperfections, the stock Ural (steel) wheels were just too far gone for safety”. I had Terry Crawford pick out some used rims for me that he eyeballed as round and made the Buchanon’s cut.
Stagewex

Current Herd all running amok:
2019 Honda CRF450L (Elec Start)
2008 Vespa 150S (Elec & Kick Start)
2007 Ural Patrol (2WD, Elec & Kick Start)
2006 Honda "Big Ruckus" PS250 (Elec Start)
1991 Honda XR250L (Kick Start Only) *NOT running amok, out for Bottom & Top-End Rebuild.
1986 Yamaha BW200ES (Elec & Kick Start)

List what you "have", keep the others in your precious memory bank.

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