2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Woe unto you that bought the first model year of a major remake, perhaps this section can help address any 2014 and later model Ural "imperfections". Here's a special section for folks with the latest rigs to discuss 2014 and later model-related topics such fuel injection, 3-wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering dampers, spin-on oil filters and other anomalies that don't belong on true Russsian motorcycle ;-P We've gone from using big hammers and greasy wrenches to needing computers and Ouija boards in order to fix our rigs.
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Please keep this section specific to issues pertaining to 2014 and later models such as fuel injection, sidecar and rear disc brakes and so forth. Ask general or non-2014 and later specific questions in the main Hammerin' & Wrenchin' section.
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2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by roberd42 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:16 am

I put on the 2019+ oil pump, pickup, sump, and breather today. I haven’t driven it but did crank it up. Noticed there’s no oil pressure idiot light (never really paid attention before). I’m sure I put everything together properly but I’d feel better if I actually KNEW it was pumping oil. Is there any way to tell, just hate to find out I didn’t get something seated properly by locking it up lol.

I did find the oil pump gasket was partially covering the output to the case. So hopefully I fixed that with the new gasket.

Here’s some photos of the new vs old parts. The oil pump looks 1000% better made and doesn’t have slack in the drive rod like the one I removed. Oil pan capacity increase with the same ground clearance is nice and probably a weight reduction. The old pan was definitely heavier but I didn’t think to weigh the new one before I installed it. I’m hoping this paired with the keihin EFI kit (on order) will result in cooler and much better running. My EJ EFI Drops rpm and stalls every damn time it’s at operating temperature and idles more than 30-45 seconds.
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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by VWK75S » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:16 am

Looks good :thumbsup:
What are the 4 extra holes for in the oil pan? :?
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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by roberd42 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:43 am

Good question! Parts diagram doesn’t show anything there and the holes don’t translate to the outside. So I’m not sure?
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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by windmill » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:37 am

The changes to the oil system don't make it run cooler, it helps it maintain a more consistent temperature as conditions change.
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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by Peter Pan » Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:07 pm

With that new high volume oil pump it does take "less time" to deliver oil to the neuralgic points. Anyway, with the high volume oil pump my bike still needs 35 to 45 seconds after a longer stand (over night) until decent lubrication gets to the engine.
I'd like to know how long you needed to run the engine with the small rickety oil pump before oil got to cylinders.

Way to test after a night start engine and let rev at 1500 revs with stiff throttle after 35-45 seconds the revs will slowly raise to 2000-2500 revs. That is case with my carburated model.
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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by windmill » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:25 pm

The new oil pump volume is the same. It's better quality allows it to flow a bit more at low RPM.
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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by rougaroo » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:31 pm

What are the 4 extra holes for in the oil pan?
I asked Jason. He said they've been experimenting with a screen for the oil pan that might reduce foaming in the oil. Since they were going to a new pan design it was easier to implement then rather than make another change later.

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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by gobium » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:44 am

rougaroo wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:31 pm
What are the 4 extra holes for in the oil pan?
I asked Jason. He said they've been experimenting with a screen for the oil pan that might reduce foaming in the oil. Since they were going to a new pan design it was easier to implement then rather than make another change later.

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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by roberd42 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:09 pm

I figured it was some type of baffling for the larger oil quantity. It has to run slightly cooler with 35% more oil capacity, that allows the oil to cool longer in the pan and circulate cooler. It’s probably less than 10 degrees F cooler CHT at operating temps but, I know coming from the aircraft world, anything helps on air cooled engines.
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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by windmill » Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:15 pm

roberd42 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:09 pm
I figured it was some type of baffling for the larger oil quantity. It has to run slightly cooler with 35% more oil capacity, that allows the oil to cool longer in the pan and circulate cooler. It’s probably less than 10 degrees F cooler CHT at operating temps but, I know coming from the aircraft world, anything helps on air cooled engines.
As explained to me by the people at IMWA who helped engineer the changes:

Volume retains heat, surface dissipates it. The volume was increased, but the surface area is approximately the same.

The primary goal of the new oil pan was to decrease emissions. It works in conjunction with the other changes to help maintain a more consistent engine temperature. The closer the engine temperature is to ideal, the less the EFI system needs to adjust to changes, which means it runs more efficiently, and cleaner.

Cooling capacity was increased through a more efficient exhaust tract in the new head, and larger fins on the cylinder and head. The new pushrod tubes are larger diameter to slightly increase oil delivery to the valve assembly, but its still only a small amount of oil passes through the head, and doesn't contribute to cooling it.
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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by Mr Wazzock » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:08 pm

Very interesting! :D
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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by windmill » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:52 pm

Mr Wazzock wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:08 pm
Very interesting! :D
I don't pretend to understand the science behind it, but just running an engine lean to pass emissions doesn't cut it any more. The AFR needs to be correct, too rich, or too lean will interfere with the function of the catalytic converters, and will create excess emissions. Engine temperature is an important factor in maintaining the correct AFR, "cooler" isn't "better".
Barry

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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by roberd42 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:02 am

Makes sense. It will definitely help normalize temps. And no, colder is not better. We use 180 degrees in aircraft just to vaporize moisture in the oil. There’s one on UralNE youtube getting a complete rebuild at 30k klicks. They didn’t specify why the rebuild. It has a HUGE 2ft long spurgin type oil cooler. I can’t help but think that had something to do with it.

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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by windmill » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:38 am

roberd42 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:02 am
Makes sense. It will definitely help normalize temps. And no, colder is not better. We use 180 degrees in aircraft just to vaporize moisture in the oil. There’s one on UralNE youtube getting a complete rebuild at 30k klicks. They didn’t specify why the rebuild. It has a HUGE 2ft long spurgin type oil cooler. I can’t help but think that had something to do with it.
I can't say if it did, but perhaps indirectly by inspiring false confidence?

Heat is generated, and dissipated in the top end, and the Electrojet system has its limitations in its ability to compensate for excess heat, especially during extended high speed, high load running, which is why there's specific guidelines in the owners manual regarding speed and load.

An oil cooler will cool the oil, but it won't cool the heads when pushed to the limits.


That said, what you did does have some positive benefits, and is money well spent.
First and foremost, the new style breather greatly reduces the amount of emulsified oil that enters the intake tract. The new pump provides more consistent oil delivery at low RPM such as when warming up, sitting at stops, and in stop and go traffic. The new oil pan with its greater capacity maintains a higher percentage of active additives through the oils service life.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

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Re: 2019+ Oiling/breather upgrade

Post by RC20 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:08 pm

Original question was no LOP light?

Do you not get a MIL light and blink code?
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