raceway twin stick install on 2019

Woe unto you that bought the first model year of a major remake, perhaps this section can help address any 2014 and later model Ural "imperfections". Here's a special section for folks with the latest rigs to discuss 2014 and later model-related topics such fuel injection, 3-wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering dampers, spin-on oil filters and other anomalies that don't belong on true Russsian motorcycle ;-P We've gone from using big hammers and greasy wrenches to needing computers and Ouija boards in order to fix our rigs.
Forum rules
Please keep this section specific to issues pertaining to 2014 and later models such as fuel injection, sidecar and rear disc brakes and so forth. Ask general or non-2014 and later specific questions in the main Hammerin' & Wrenchin' section.
cjlyth
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:07 am
Location: Seattle, WA

raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by cjlyth » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:01 am

Has anyone installed a twin stick shift kit on a 2019? I am convinced it's impossible.

I spent an hour trying to get the ubolt on that bottom piece and finally got it on but there is no way to get the crash bar back on. The rabbit ears on the bottom piece are too far out. Am i supposed to bend them? The directions didn't say anything about bending them. The nut will not fit, what am I doing wrong?

It also seems like the forward/reverse arm is about 4 inches too short, but one problem at a time I guess...

crash-guard-600.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2019 Gear Up - my daily driver

cjlyth
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:07 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by cjlyth » Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:09 pm

I decided to bend the ears, and bolt everything together to go to the hardware store so I can buy the washers that the instructions say were supposed to be included in the kit. Unfortunately they were not and this is my only means of transportation. I thought I could take off the linkage and drive it with the job partially finished.

When I was putting everything together, I noticed the gas tank wouldn't go on. The upper bracket, I think they call it mast tube, will not allow the tank to go on. You can see in the picture where the tank is hitting. There is grey paint on the bracket. At this point, I am thinking I should take the bracket off and grind it down but this doesn't seem like something I should have to do.

Has anyone completed this job on a 2019 without having to do these two modifications to the kit?

fuel-tank.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2019 Gear Up - my daily driver

cjlyth
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:07 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by cjlyth » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:42 pm

Well, I bought some spacer washers and got a couple of threads on the bottom bolt. Also got the linkage the right way in, it is backwards in the image.

Unfortunately the tank would just not go on, it sits on the bracket. I have uninstalled everything but the bottom bracket and am currently trying to work with the folks at Raceway to figure out what I'm doing wrong. They have been very nice and I may end up driving the ~4 hours there to have them do the install.

If anyone has an install story to share on a 2019 that might help I would appreciate it. I can't imagine what I'm doing wrong here, the tank just doesn't seem to fit with this bracket.
2019 Gear Up - my daily driver

Dr.Tramp
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:22 am
Location: Cheyenne WY - Mother Nature's wind tunnel

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Dr.Tramp » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 am

I imagine you already checked out the Raceway site for additional instructions. If not this may be just the same info that came with the kit but this was all I could find at their site. Oddly there is nothing at all about installing the twin stick kit on YouTube. Hope it helps.
http://racewayural.com/dealer-info/acce ... tructions/
Ride Safe. Dr.Tramp............

User avatar
Happytrails
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 1171
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 7:35 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Happytrails » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:23 am

Sorry for the long reply. :) I did this install not long ago on a 2018. The folks are Raceway were really nice and tried to help. Best advice they gave me was to consider this a "kit" and not a simple bolt on.

Bottom bracket has a bend and complex curve happening together at a difficult spot. After carefully looking at the part and how its supposed to sit I think with a heavy bench vice, a big enough hammer and some heat that I could have pursuaded the bracket to fit...... eventually. What I concluded was that Raceway had this part made for them by a company that had some sort of jig as a template. And due to the difficult nature of the complex bend it was just hard to get right. To me it looks like the bend is off but the u-bolt holds this bracket good and square like it should be. Just by looking at the bracket I could see it had a slightly bend to it where it should have been straight. I'm seeing the same thing in your photo as I saw during my install. Its about a 1/2" - 3/4" off. But its also in the way if its not bolted to the engine guard. So In the end I cut the bracket only as much as I needed, touched up the paint and only used the u-bolt to hold the bracket in place. This worked perfectly and haven't had any issues. To me the part where it bolted onto the engine guard was a little overkill in design. I put some blue loctite and some lock washers to keep the u-bolt in place.

Its hard to tell whats out of place with the top bracket from your photo. It needs to set in just a certain way and in the right order. Only thing I might suggest is maybe look at Raceways photos for the install of this it might be helpful. They took a ton of photos and it helped some to just look at what they did. The OEM bracket fit correctly but when I studied the Raceway bracket it did look identical but didn't sit exactly the same. It took some fiddling and double checking of the way I had mine sitting in there to get it right. Understand that mines an 18 and your trying to install on a 19 but have a feeling they didnt' change the bracket mount. Something you did might be off a little, I dont recall having clearance issues with the gas tank other than the fuel lines are very snug on the handshifter side. I was going to buy a piece of flat aluminum stock and make an extension piece to move the ignition coil down slightly and maybe give a little more room to the fuel lines. Its just tight in there with the fuel filter and 2 fuel lines all crammed in a small area.

As for the rods being 4" too short you will probably find that once you swap around the rods that it fits like a glove once you get the bottom and top brackets settled in. Had to swap those rods around a few times to get it right.

Would also suggest that for the upper pivot arm that is secured with a screw that you use a little blue loctite and even a lockwasher. Mine has a tendancy to work its way loose from shifting into reverse and I haven't checked mine since I added some loctite. Its easy to notice when its coming loose because I wasn't able to shift it into reverse.
-JR

2018 Ural GearUp, Urban Camo
1991 Honda Goldwing SE

"riding is good therapy"

User avatar
Happytrails
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 1171
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 7:35 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Happytrails » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:30 am

A few final thoughts after using this awhile. :)

Its very fun and looks cool. But more for a purpose I thought this would relieve the pain I had in my left knee from heel shifting. It did and it didn't. When I hand shift it did relieve the pain. But its very hilly here with lots of windy roads. Great for motorcycles really. Not always so great when you have to handshift though. On a hill with a bend, trying to steer a Ural one handed, shift up a gear and then get back into the throttle the rpms drop so quickly. I left the Raceway OEM type shifter alone so I can heel/toe shift if needed and it turns out that was a good decision.

Handshifting is a lot more fun than I thought it would be and its great when your on flat roads just plodding along nicely. Its also not a very efficient way to shift when your in traffic so much and trying to keep pace. I'm scrubbing off a speed at every shift, more than I like even when trying to quickly shift. I've become good at toeshifting, something I wasn't expecting on a Ural but its more about letting the rpm's drop slightly between shifts rather than using heel shifting to get smooth shifts. I guess handshifting taught me that. You may find the same thing after you get a chance to do it for awhile.

Was it worth it? Paid around $550 for the dual stick shifter. Its been a lot of fun and handshifting just has a coolness factor of 10x. It makes finding neutral a lot easier. But for me and the roads I ride on I'm handshifting part of the time. Maybe I'm not as up on right side handshifters as some other folks and I was surprised but turns out there are other motorcycles like old indians and harleys that have shifters on the right side too (vs left side with a foot clutch). Assuming they are good at it and watching them on youtube they have the same problem I have with shifting and getting back on the throttle quickly only they mostly dont have a sidecar so they aren't dropping rpms as much. I wasn't thinking about this at all when I bought the shifter so looking back it hasn't been all positives.

A couple tips: If you go to replace the shift knob its held on with red loctite so you have to heat it up a little to get the factory one off. And I guess weight makes a difference when it comes to those things. Too heavy a shifter knob will apparently make it jump gear. Too big and it will hit the handlebars. If you have to take your bike in for inspection to a garage that doesn't know much about those shifters it helps just to foot shift works fine. The handshifter just seems to throw people off on how it works or what it does. Even people who think they know something about it. I find it just confuses everybody.

Good luck with your install :)
-JR

2018 Ural GearUp, Urban Camo
1991 Honda Goldwing SE

"riding is good therapy"

User avatar
ReCycled
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 2496
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:10 am
Location: Broomall, PA

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by ReCycled » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:32 am

There have been a lot of threads about the installation of the twin shift kits, and I think they nearly all have one thing in common. No one seems to describe what task they are trying to achieve with which shifter.

I assumed the OP was asking about connecting the tall shifter for 2wd and the lower for reverse as that's how I use mine. Others using 2wd less frequently may prefer the oposite. It sounds like Happytrails used the tall shifter for forward gears.

This may be part of the logic why the instructions are vague with this "kit".

I am very happy with mine as using 2wd on the fly has greatly improved the off road performance of my bike.
David B.
'07 Ural Twourist

User avatar
Tomcatfixer
Commissar
Commissar
Posts: 8187
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:10 am
Location: Gordonsville, VA

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Tomcatfixer » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:13 am

Part of the confusion is that there are three distinct kits:
- Reverse only
- Reverse and 2WD (not called "Twin Stick by Raceway, but has the same number of "sticks" as the following kit)
- "Twin Stick" Forward gears + reverse gear

http://racewayural.com/product-category/shift-kits/

Since the OP used the phrase "twin stick" in the subject line, I believe he is attempting to install the last of the three.


Screenshot_2020-04-13-08-11-23-1.png

EDIT - I must say, the photos on Raceway's instructions page do a terrible job of showing how the lower left foot shifter linkage pivot is attached to the frame. It looks like a clamp-on bracket, but the OP mentioned a U-bolt, which I don't see...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2001 Ural Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Ural Tourist "The RPOC", Mid-Nineties Ural Tourist "The Heap", 1994 Honda VFR750F, 2007 BMW K1200GT

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two different 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers

User avatar
Pterodactyl
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:43 am

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Pterodactyl » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:57 am

I had Raceway install the reverse shifter on my 18 and Spousal Unit's 19 when we bought them. Recently I added the 2WD shifter myself. A friend with a 14 liked what he saw and also updated his reverse shifter to add 2 WD; in his case he had to replace the reverse shifter because the pivot rod was not long enough to accomodate the 2 WD handle. Evidently the difficult part of installing these things is getting the under tank bracket installed correctly. Having Raceway install them on our bikes saved me that headache. Upgrading to add 2WD was pretty simple. The only puzzler was mounting the new piviot where the old 2WD lever was mounted. The factory bracket that holds the factory lever in either 1 or 2WD interferes with the new pivot hardware. I spoke to Raceway and they said sometimes they can work around the bracket, sometimes they need to bend it out of the way and sometimes they cut it...... I cut both of ours off. I saved what I removed and if I ever want to restore them it will be an easy welding task. The 2WD handle works like a charm and allows for shifting into and out of 2WD while moving thus keeping up the momentum of the rig at a time when it is most needed.
Kevin
The Outpost, Silver City, MT
2018 Ural Gear Up, 2017 R1200GSA
After taking several readings I’m surprised to find my mind is fairly sound..... Willie Nelson, Me and Paul

User avatar
Happytrails
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 1171
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 7:35 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Happytrails » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:21 am

ReCycled wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:32 am
I assumed the OP was asking about connecting the tall shifter for 2wd and the lower for reverse as that's how I use mine. Others using 2wd less frequently may prefer the oposite. It sounds like Happytrails used the tall shifter for forward gears.
You know I never thought about it but maybe he is. It threw me off when he talked about the lower bracket. The 2wd shifter makes a lot of sense. I have yet to find some available gravel/dirt paths to have fun on. You know what its like in PA, seems like all the land is either state park or privately owned. I see some of the local kids on there dirt bikes headed to some local spots but I have yet to find where they are riding. Maybe some single tracks on private property. Really wish I had a chance to use 2wd more often :)
-JR

2018 Ural GearUp, Urban Camo
1991 Honda Goldwing SE

"riding is good therapy"

User avatar
Tomcatfixer
Commissar
Commissar
Posts: 8187
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:10 am
Location: Gordonsville, VA

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Tomcatfixer » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:24 am

Happytrails wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:21 am
ReCycled wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:32 am
I assumed the OP was asking about connecting the tall shifter for 2wd and the lower for reverse as that's how I use mine. Others using 2wd less frequently may prefer the oposite. It sounds like Happytrails used the tall shifter for forward gears.
You know I never thought about it but maybe he is. It threw me off when he talked about the lower bracket. The 2wd shifter makes a lot of sense. I have yet to find some available gravel/dirt paths to have fun on. You know what its like in PA, seems like all the land is either state park or privately owned. I see some of the local kids on there dirt bikes headed to some local spots but I have yet to find where they are riding. Maybe some single tracks on private property. Really wish I had a chance to use 2wd more often :)
Then, which lever is he connecting to his heel-toe shifter? 🤔
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2001 Ural Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Ural Tourist "The RPOC", Mid-Nineties Ural Tourist "The Heap", 1994 Honda VFR750F, 2007 BMW K1200GT

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two different 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers

User avatar
Lofty
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 1686
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:17 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Lofty » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:05 pm

I do like the look and the functionality of the hand shifters. I'd be willing to invest in one, but what gives me pause is the documented need for arguably not-minor modification work by the customer (as this latest thread attests).
Raceway...said sometimes they can work around the bracket,
sometimes they need to bend it out of the way
sometimes they cut it...
Bending, cutting, potential (re)welding. :-| To be tried if or when the workarounds fail.

I've had to make minor accommodations through the years when installing motorcycle accessories, but I've never had to deploy a vice, hammers or heat. Not separately, and certainly not for a single job.

Are there sufficient manufacturing variances through the years (at Irbit) that would make the aforementioned modifications a reasonable necessity for Raceway's "kits"?
Inventory:
2018 Ural Gear Up
2015 Suzuki DR650
1991 Bianchi Osprey
1952 Columbia RX-5 ('87, NOS)

User avatar
Happytrails
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 1171
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 7:35 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Happytrails » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:53 pm

Tomcatfixer wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:24 am
Then, which lever is he connecting to his heel-toe shifter? 🤔
Not sure, I'm confused. Maybe OP has it sorted out already :D
-JR

2018 Ural GearUp, Urban Camo
1991 Honda Goldwing SE

"riding is good therapy"

User avatar
Happytrails
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2020
Posts: 1171
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 7:35 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Happytrails » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:07 pm

Lofty wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:05 pm
I do like the look and the functionality of the hand shifters. I'd be willing to invest in one, but what gives me pause is the documented need for arguably not-minor modification work by the customer (as this latest thread attests).
Raceway...said sometimes they can work around the bracket,
sometimes they need to bend it out of the way
sometimes they cut it...
Bending, cutting, potential (re)welding. :-| To be tried if or when the workarounds fail.

I've had to make minor accommodations through the years when installing motorcycle accessories, but I've never had to deploy a vice, hammers or heat. Not separately, and certainly not for a single job.

Are there sufficient manufacturing variances through the years (at Irbit) that would make the aforementioned modifications a reasonable necessity for Raceway's "kits"?
Feel the same way. Just my opinion but I thought the raceway kit was nice quality. The brackets are substantial and the powder coating is very good quality. The rods and everything else seems well engineered so feels like you get your moneys worth from the hardware side of things. Its not inexpensive so didn't want to beat up the brackets too much so it took me 3x-4x times as long to install.

Finding the right shifter knob is another issue :)

Image
Last edited by Happytrails on Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-JR

2018 Ural GearUp, Urban Camo
1991 Honda Goldwing SE

"riding is good therapy"

User avatar
Tomcatfixer
Commissar
Commissar
Posts: 8187
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:10 am
Location: Gordonsville, VA

Re: raceway twin stick install on 2019

Post by Tomcatfixer » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:13 pm

Are there sufficient manufacturing variances through the years (at Irbit) that would make the aforementioned modifications a reasonable necessity for Raceway's "kits"?
I own three Raceway hand-shifters, one reverse-only on the Mobile Chernobyl, one reverse & 2WD shifter on the Little Red Bear, and an uninstalled reverse-only for my '99 project bike.

When I went to install the 'Chernobyl's shifter, I couldn't figure out how to mount the EFI model coils, which previously mounted to an OEM bracket that was incompatible with the shifter. I ended up drilling some holes in the Raceway product and awkwardly (but quite tidily, actually) stuffing the coils under the tank, bolted to the shifter mount. When I purchased the shifter for the LRB, I discovered that Raceway had "caught on" and installed welded coil-mounting tabs to the newer shifters, which are completely useless on a 2001 Patrol (I'll be cannibalizing these two shifters to better suit each bike)

CONVERSELY, the shifter install on the Patrol was smooth sailing... until I got to the threaded rods for the 2WD linkage. I can't remember specifically what I did, but I had to alter the rods to make the setup functional.

So, Ural year differences may be a factor, but I would also argue that Raceway is partly to blame for installation difficulties.
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2001 Ural Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Ural Tourist "The RPOC", Mid-Nineties Ural Tourist "The Heap", 1994 Honda VFR750F, 2007 BMW K1200GT

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two different 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers

Post Reply