Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Woe unto you that bought the first model year of a major remake, perhaps this section can help address any 2014 and later model Ural "imperfections". Here's a special section for folks with the latest rigs to discuss 2014 and later model-related topics such fuel injection, 3-wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering dampers, spin-on oil filters and other anomalies that don't belong on true Russsian motorcycle ;-P We've gone from using big hammers and greasy wrenches to needing computers and Ouija boards in order to fix our rigs.
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Please keep this section specific to issues pertaining to 2014 and later models such as fuel injection, sidecar and rear disc brakes and so forth. Ask general or non-2014 and later specific questions in the main Hammerin' & Wrenchin' section.
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pbrowne
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Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by pbrowne » Fri May 31, 2019 1:59 pm

To get the sidecar as level as possible side-to-side, I adjusted until the sidecar wheel was vertical. Is this correct? Someone has suggested sidecar wheel should be leaned in.
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by chaos2 » Fri May 31, 2019 2:28 pm

Mine leans in a couple degrees, even with the sidecar frame dead level. Does not seem to hurt anything.
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by S 854 » Fri May 31, 2019 3:13 pm

I think “toed-in” might be a more apt description...

As far as I know (or care) my hack wheel is vertical...
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by RC20 » Fri May 31, 2019 4:05 pm

The Cycle is leaned out (slant to the lefty away from the sidecar) a few degrees for stability.

The difference between the car and the cycle is a small toe in.

I think the sidecar wheel is supposed to be vertical but not there yet in for sure.
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by Albuquralque » Fri May 31, 2019 8:42 pm

Sidecar wheel is supposed to be vertical (perpendicular) to level ground.

Bike is leaned out away from the sidecar.
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by Lmo » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:25 am

Just like any other tire, if it runs on the sidewall (by leaning in, or out (camber adjustment on a car)) it will try to turn the entire rig one direction or the other.). And by trying to 'turn' it will affect your overall steering, probably resulting in having to adjust toe in.

Vertical, or as near as you can get it, is mo betta. Lean-out on the bike... I'm running about 1°. 0° would be best if not for the road crown issue.
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by Subsnowden » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:30 pm

Supposed to be vertical but there is an issue with sidecar swingarm bushings collapsing and causing a sidecar wheel to lean while everything else is in correct alignment
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by hotflash44 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:39 am

pbrowne wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 1:59 pm
To get the sidecar as level as possible side-to-side, I adjusted until the sidecar wheel was vertical. Is this correct? Someone has suggested sidecar wheel should be leaned in.
here is my take on this issue, I asked the same question once on the forum and after much hand wringing and worry decided to leave it alone. my 2016 has 4000+ miles now. the side car wheel if I attach a degree meter on the rotor shows 2 degree lean in at the top. now the tire is perfect and I always carry a 195 lb monkey when I ride. the bike trails strait and I haven't experienced any adverse handling. so I decided to leave it alone and several old timers here on SS agreed. hope my situation helps. :cheers:
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by AndyH » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:48 pm

pbrowne wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 1:59 pm
here is my take on this issue, I asked the same question once on the forum and after much hand wringing and worry decided to leave it alone. my 2016 has 4000+ miles now. the side car wheel if I attach a degree meter on the rotor shows 2 degree lean in at the top.
Agree - I had mine adjusted by a Dealer/ Servicing agent. There is a 1 degree lean in at the top of the side car wheel, the bike leans out less than 1 degree (0.5) and the tow-in is almost non-existant (1/16th"). I have done almost 10,000 miles without an issue. I have used friends Urals (carb and EFI) and don't notice a difference in handling.

My advice, use the measurements as a starting point - adjust to suit your riding style - after all we are all different.

Disclaimer: The roads here have a high crown and camber built in.
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by Marc » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:24 pm

My Local dealer here in Canada gave me his way of doing it. Check tire pressures, then on a level surface, set bike and tub wheels perfectly vertical but first having put a spacer under both wheel of the bike. (I think 1'' but would need to check notes I have misplaced) This way you do not need a special tool to measure the angle. Just a very good level. Removing the spacer will ''tilt'' both in the same direction.
On my Patrol 2014, the rear wheel was not tracking with the front one. Actually it was the front not tracking with the rear. His advise was to support the bike under engine, but not lifting it up! Loosen the 4 clamping of the front fork. Jerk the handle bars left /right to loosen things up. Pull the fork assembly side ways until proper contact to straight edge set on the rear wheel. Confirm straightness of handlebars before tightening. It did work for me. He had a brand new bike in is shop he could not fix this way. Ural sent him a new frame, due to major deviation of the rear wheel. It was one of his slow season project. Perfect now. (according to him...)

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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by Peter Pan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:21 pm

Gear up and Patrol with 2wd have very little toe in and the "run to the left" for track compensation is dealt with the sidecar wheel tilted a tiny bit towards the bike. (like if a solo wheel stears to the left)
I was very happy with Racewayservices's geometry set up right from the first day. So I used a few center point marks for to memorize the original settings. 43.000km later, still good tracking....well, we will see if it will be so again, once I will get my new crank and cylinders mounted...next week back in CR?
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by sKiZo » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:39 pm

OK then ... on my project list to try doing a full alignment on mine. Way I read it, "level" the car by setting it so the car wheel is perfectly vertical?

I'm also told that 1-1.5 degrees of lean on the bike is right for crowned roads in my area. Simple test is to hold a plumb bob against the sidewall at the top of the pusher just behind the axle, and go for about 1" of clearance at the bottom?

Toe in is supposed to be around 1/2 inch at the front. I've got an old heavy duty queen size bed frame that should work pretty well for that - just clamp the rails to the tires and go for it.

(We need a sticky on this! Unless we already have one, then forget I mentioned it) <G>
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by Snakeoil » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:53 pm

I always carry a 195 lb monkey
I truly hope you have a monkey as a pet. Because if you just posted the wife's weight on the internet, I suspect they will find a body in a dumpster behind one of the casinos tomorrow morning.
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by harryball » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:08 pm

Snakeoil wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:53 pm
I always carry a 195 lb monkey
I truly hope you have a monkey as a pet. Because if you just posted the wife's weight on the internet, I suspect they will find a body in a dumpster behind one of the casinos tomorrow morning.
Amen to that!
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Re: Should sidecar wheel be vertical?

Post by sKiZo » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:25 pm

Have you met the little lady? Hold on - I have a pic in my wallet ...

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