Kick starting EFI rig

Woe unto you that bought the first model year of a major remake, perhaps this section can help address any 2014 and later model Ural "imperfections". Here's a special section for folks with the latest rigs to discuss 2014 and later model-related topics such fuel injection, 3-wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering dampers, spin-on oil filters and other anomalies that don't belong on true Russsian motorcycle ;-P We've gone from using big hammers and greasy wrenches to needing computers and Ouija boards in order to fix our rigs.
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Please keep this section specific to issues pertaining to 2014 and later models such as fuel injection, sidecar and rear disc brakes and so forth. Ask general or non-2014 and later specific questions in the main Hammerin' & Wrenchin' section.
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Eric N
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by Eric N » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:36 pm

eastbloc wrote:There's no technical reason why the CPS sensor signal should need some extreme kicking technique to be "good enough", any more than a conventional electronic ignition should need that.

Indeed, when I was troubleshooting my kickstarting issues last year, I pulled the left plug and laid it on the head and confirmed that it did readily spark with just a regular, non-superhuman kick.
Did the injector squirt fuel? You can have all the spark in the world, if there's no go juice, there's no go.

How should the injector calculate the fuel need? I don't know what the maps look like, but I suspect if it has to have a certain speed the injector isn't mapped for lower RPM's and therefore doesn't do anything. Perhaps a slight map tweak would make kicking easier.
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by eastbloc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:54 pm

I didn’t remove the injector to check. I’ll do that when I have time and the weather cooperates. But it’s not an issue with the CPS sensor not sending a signal or we wouldn’t have spark.
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by windmill » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:48 pm

I think that part of the problem is that the EFI system is looking for a specific sequence of events within specific parameters before it will initiate its run mode, where as carbs and standard ignition will perform their basic functions at some less than ideal level simply by being set in motion.
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by eastbloc » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:49 am

I agree that is what is happening, but would posit that the "ideal" in this case is the rig starting. Anything beyond that is just a pain in the arse.
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by hotflash44 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:35 pm

still hate the mushy feel of the crank leaver, i miss the lumpy feel of compression like on a old Triumph, i realize the Ural doesn't have high compression ratio, but is that mushy feel because of the opposed twin design? I like the Heindl Engineering YouTube, starting a EFI Ural says find the compression stroke then give a firm kick, have yet found the feel of compression. :cheers:
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by eastbloc » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:57 pm

Not sure how you can miss it. Try operating it with your hand.
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by windmill » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:03 pm

eastbloc wrote:Not sure how you can miss it. Try operating it with your hand.
You beat me to it.
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by hotflash44 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:13 pm

windmill ,okay i get it , maybe my 280 pounds kind of blows by the compression feel. the lighter you are the more compression a bike seems to have, maybe that's why my friends used to always call me to pump on their flooded bikes, i used to tell them when your tired of cranking call me ill start it for you, kind of a badge of merit for a dummy. :boogie: :boogie:
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by bikenut » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:34 am

hotflash44 wrote::? Mr Wazzock,do you mean like a 2 wheel bike, roll as fast as you can then drop into gear to start! probably would work on a steep decline. :? :cheers:
I have a pretty steep and long driveway, and yes, it started right up. To put it in perspective, before I have to slow down to enter the road, I can hit 37 km/ hr coating down it
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by eastbloc » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:34 pm

I tried cold starting today. Ambient temperature around 50.

I managed to get it going on the fourth kick. I did adjust my technique to account for the ideas in this thread.

Turns out my “normal” Ural kicking technique is optimized for momentum coming out of the bottom of the kick stroke rather than rotational speed right at the top. The FI definitely responds better to the latter technique. It is not how hard you kick overall but how fast you can “snap” it right past TDC.
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by hotflash44 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:54 pm

eastbloc, did the same thing, i agree there is a trick to kick starting a EFI. i tried once with no luck starting like a Triumph, then started looking on the forum for information Windmill said speed is the trick and low and behold i got Fire,amazing. :cheers:
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by eastbloc » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:49 pm

Yup for sure, thanks windmill for the tip!

I still intend to pull off the injector and do some kicking get a little more empirical data around this behavior when I have time.
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by hawksbe » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:55 pm

If the EFI rigs can be started with a normal kick when warm (mine can, and I think most say the same thing), then surely they are both firing and squirting fuel with a normal (not excessively energetic) kick, even when cold. Seems to me it is just the extra drag of cold oil that's getting in the way.

EDIT: I mean, drag post-kick, not in the kick itself.
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by windmill » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:59 pm

Well Gentlemen, now that we have the kick starting procedure figured out..... we can go back to using the magic button without embarrassment. :D
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Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Post by windmill » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:07 pm

hawksbe wrote:If the EFI rigs can be started with a normal kick when warm (mine can, and I think most say the same thing), then surely they are both firing and squirting fuel with a normal (not excessively energetic) kick, even when cold. Seems to me it is just the extra drag of cold oil that's getting in the way.

EDIT: I mean, drag post-kick, not in the kick itself.
Certainly the additional resistance of a cold engine is a significant factor, but in all likelihood the threshold that the EFI system is looking for is lower with a warm engine in the same way enrichener and throttle position is different on a warm carb engine.
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