Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Woe unto you that bought the first model year of a major remake, perhaps this section can help address any 2014 and later model Ural "imperfections". Here's a special section for folks with the latest rigs to discuss 2014 and later model-related topics such fuel injection, 3-wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering dampers, spin-on oil filters and other anomalies that don't belong on true Russsian motorcycle ;-P We've gone from using big hammers and greasy wrenches to needing computers and Ouija boards in order to fix our rigs.
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Please keep this section specific to issues pertaining to 2014 and later models such as fuel injection, sidecar and rear disc brakes and so forth. Ask general or non-2014 and later specific questions in the main Hammerin' & Wrenchin' section.
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chaos2
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Re: Steering damper replacement?

Post by chaos2 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:56 pm

Doc wrote: Anyone have one of these on their bike?
Looks very similar to the VW dampener that's only $30.
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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by GHGoodwin » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:05 pm

Worked over the damper today and here's what I found. It just may be the cause of our premature damper failure.

The damper heim joints are bolted to the mounting brackets with a small metal spacer that is covered with a rubber/plastic (?) tube. The spacer covers look like hand cut slices off something and are neither square ended or the same overall length. Either way both were longer than the inner spacer. They got deformed over the ball end in the joint during installation. Both were long enough that they compressed onto the brass collar and immobilized the joint when the mounting bolts were inserted and tightened.

On my bench showing deformed outer tubing and shorter inner spacers.
CIMG0367.JPG
Brass collar just FYI.
CIMG0368.JPG
Shows how joint was immobilized when bolted tight. There is no movement in the joint at all.
CIMG0369.JPG

Every damper setup I looked at on other bikes allowed full movement of the heim joint. I believe this is because the joints are needed so the damper shaft and outer tube can maintain a floating coaxial alignment. This can't be happening if the joints are immobilized like mine were. I can only think that the seals were taking a real beating because of this. Time to check your rides.

The easy solution would be to get rid of the outer covering on the spacer. Also pay attention to the joints themselves. Mine were dry as a bone and needed a good lubing. They'll get need regular cleaning and lubricating from now on.

I'll look around and see if there's a better spacer to be had.
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Re: Steering damper replacement?

Post by siberman1 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:12 pm

GHGoodwin wrote: I did find what may be a better o-ring for the shaft. 6.5mm x 2mm for an 10.5mmOD. Smaller ID than OEM and only .1mm (.004") smaller OD. Ordered a couple to see.
Did you try the new different size O-rings yet? I imagine there must be some sort of plastic plumbing pipe, like the small stuff for toilets that could be cut square and be the right size for a spacer. Also, there is a hard white plastic fuel line I have seen on ATVs. I have a piece, I'll measure it.

Of course my steering damper leaks, and I think is empty. I get the shake something fierce at times. I asked about warranty replacement, none available a few weeks ago, so maybe the 2016 ones will be coming in?
Curious.
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Re: Steering damper replacement?

Post by barnone » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:18 pm

Trevorski wrote:These look interesting- especially the progressive one- not cheap but nowhere as nutty as some of the other products' prices...
http://www.epmperf.com/steering-damper.htm
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 86009.html
hy-page-0.jpg

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Re: Steering damper replacement?

Post by GHGoodwin » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:25 pm

siberman1 wrote:
GHGoodwin wrote: I did find what may be a better o-ring for the shaft. 6.5mm x 2mm for an 10.5mmOD. Smaller ID than OEM and only .1mm (.004") smaller OD. Ordered a couple to see.
Did you try the new different size O-rings yet? I imagine there must be some sort of plastic plumbing pipe, like the small stuff for toilets that could be cut square and be the right size for a spacer. Also, there is a hard white plastic fuel line I have seen on ATVs. I have a piece, I'll measure it.

Of course my steering damper leaks, and I think is empty. I get the shake something fierce at times. I asked about warranty replacement, none available a few weeks ago, so maybe the 2016 ones will be coming in?
Curious.
Won't see them until next week sometime.
Hal

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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by eastbloc » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:47 pm

Hal, my seals are finally here :) I'll be doing something probably with ATF for now just to try something different. I'll inspect and grease my heim joints too.
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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by eastbloc » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:05 pm

Hal, looks like I only got one of the main seals. That may be OK, as only the one was leaking on mine, just as on yours -- the adjuster-side one.

I got Valvoline fully synthetic "Max Life" ATF. The "good stuff" at $8/quart. Leaves you plenty of room for error, which is good because the first time I re-assembled the damper I had it backwards :lol: so I got some practice taking it back apart again.

So far, no leaks, but that's in bench testing. I'll hopefully be able to road test it soon.
Last edited by eastbloc on Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by GHGoodwin » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:47 pm

eastbloc wrote:Hal, my seals are finally here :) I'll be doing something probably with ATF for now just to try something different. I'll inspect and grease my heim joints too.
Just in case I sent a second set today.
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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by eastbloc » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:05 pm

Hal is right, these O-rings are bad news. They look like they were cut with a pocket knife from a rubber hose:
DSCF9312 (1).jpg
I think these are there just to keep the heim joints greased, and they do a lousy job of that. I don't plan on re-installing them myself until we can find something more suitable.
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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by eastbloc » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:44 am

I put the damper back on, without the bits of Russian hose. It's kind of floppy without those, they were providing some damping for the action of the heim joints, but that doesn't translate to any play in the action of the damper.

Haven't taken it for a ride yet. Installing Hot Grips and brush guards today first. More to come...
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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by chaos2 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:59 am

eastbloc wrote:Hal is right, these O-rings are bad news. They look like they were cut with a pocket knife from a rubber hose
Must be the same guy that cut the rubber piece in the neutral light switch :lol:
Past afflictions include limey motocars and bikes, R60/2, R65ls, & a Citroen.
Now a DB Haanjo and Canyon CF SL Endurace, '87 K75s,
and a rusty 2012 GU bought new
dual K&N cones on homemade intake, 40/137.5
Raceway needles, Modtop exhaust, E starter delete
$29 VW Hydraulic steering dampener

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Re: Steering damper replacement?

Post by Trevorski » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:14 pm

barnone wrote:
Trevorski wrote:These look interesting- especially the progressive one- not cheap but nowhere as nutty as some of the other products' prices...
http://www.epmperf.com/steering-damper.htm
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 86009.html
hy-page-0.jpg
Fascinating! but the one shown seems to have 75mm travel, which I think is a bit short for the Ural application. I see that the aliexpress site even lists Ohlins dampers at similar prices (which I assume must be counterfeit) but in digging around, few of the listings (for the Hyperpro or the Ohlins) seem to have a decipher-able indication of travel length.
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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by GHGoodwin » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:17 pm

I decided to do some experimenting with the heim joint travel. Here's my setup using two spacers I made from 8mm nuts that were turned down and drilled out. Spacers are .5mm longer than stock and .1mm bigger in diameter. I tried several combinations but a spacer on each side won out by having about 5/32" more travel than with the OEM of just a nut on the bottom so I'll keep it.
CIMG0371.JPG
Next problem was that the car side bracket interfered with the movement a lot. I profiled it so the spacers act as the stop instead of the bracket end hitting on the tube mount. BTW - great Russian workmanship on bracket - mounting hole off center and egged out on a diagonal. Here's the reworked end showing the new clearance.
CIMG0376.JPG
After the paint on the bracket dries I'll reinstall everything with some new bolts. Also not shown is that I bent the car side bracket a bit so it is at the same height from the floor as the steering end bracket. I'm going to tweak the steering end bracket so the heim joint mounting bolts are as close to the same angle as I can get them. That way the joints will be aligned and have full movement.

There will be one more photo tomorrow showing the car side bracket. I found that mine had rotated clockwise on the frame attachment bolt and was also preventing full travel of the heim joint.

Essentially all this work is to get the heim joints parallel and in the middle of their range when the front tire is straight ahead.
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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by eastbloc » Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:09 pm

Nice work Hal. I might try to replicate some of it.

For now, I went ahead and installed the damper sans rubber hose slice, loaded with ATF and four out of six new seals. Went for a short ride, head shake is gone, and there's no signs of leaking yet.
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Re: Steering damper replacement - New Photos

Post by Trevorski » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:18 am

I just ordered a new-old-stock ACE DVC-6 industrial damper from ebay as a possible candidate for damper experimentation. Have no idea what the normal price would be but this one was very reasonable. Main body diameter on it is around 1.25 inches so it'll take some adaptation to mount it. This interests me because the DVC is designed for industrial use where it has to hold up to loads and cycling that dwarf what our application presents. Time'll tell whether this has potential or not...
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1976 Kawasaki KE125
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