New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

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Scup
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New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by Scup » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:01 pm

Firstly HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! Secondly I’m extremely excited riding this machine with all its idiosyncrasy and starting to make it ‘mine’ Ram mount, usb charging port, full fairing and maybe some other trinkets as time moves on.
Stuck 130# of cement/sand in the sidecar and been riding it all over as weather permits and believe I have it dialed in very well, the only thing I needed to adjust was the sidecar brake as it would pull to the right when rear braking. I can release the handlebars at 40-50mph and it tracks straight with a slight drag to the right so I’m happy with that, figuring its just drag from the hack.
Anyway… now for some questions: for my 2018 GU
1. Is there a breakdown, a cheat sheet of the torque values for the nut, bolts & screws for these machines? I have the owner’s manual which is somewhat helpful but only lists about ½ of the stuff I’m seeing on the bike. I remember seeing something somewhere, not sure where that had a generic sheet that listed torque values by bolt/screw size. Does anyone have anything like that that could be posted or made a sticky?
2. I’ll admit I’m not the brightest bulb in the house, but the owner’s manual and it’s description of components has me confused, and after re-torqueing everything I could reach on this bike has me concerned as some of these bolts took more wrenching than I would think with a bike with less than 200 miles, case in point “Chassis, Fork Pinch Bolts (upper & Lower Bridges) 36.9 ft. lbs. So I’m believing the upper fork pinch bolts are those hex bolts just under the plastic speedo cover and the lower are the bolts 8” below the upper hex bolts (right side has the brake cable bracket) those 2 lower pinch bolts I got about 1/4-1/2 turn or so before it torqued out.
3. Upper fork Nuts? I’d think these are to remove the fork springs on the top of the triple tree?
4. Steering head Nut? The center nut for the triple tree bearings?
5. Front Brake Reaction Link? This is pretty obvious (I hope) the round rod bolted on the right side
6. Lower Sidecar Frame Mounting Bolts? I’d think are the pinch bolts that you’d adjust the toe in, both front and rear?
7. Rear Swing Arm Bolts? This is what scares me… these look like there are barely any threads coming into the nuts from the bolts. Yet both sides look the same. Plus they didn’t make those nuts very accessible, not sure how/what type wrench to fit in there.
8. Sidecar Strut Mounting Bolts. Again I would think these are the bolts on the bottom of the struts and not the bolts going thru the eyes, which I didn’t see a torque value for those.
Also unless I’m blind, I didn’t see any torque value for the axle pinch bolts… something I would consider a critical component to have a torque value.

How about shifting? Its hard to hear the engine with the quite pipes and wind, Is there a shift pattern? 1st to 2nd above 10mph, 2nd to 3rd above 30mph, 3rd to 4th above 50mph etc?
Is there anything to be aware of when it comes to this engine/trans? Don’t lug it? Don’t wind it out?
Does the engine have a rev limiter?

Sorry for all the questions, I’ve been processing this post for days to dump all my questions together… which may not be the best way to handle it… but hopefully it will help other newbies as well.
Thanks all.
2018 Gear Up
2004 VTX 1300
2003 VTX 1800 x2

Marine Corps Codu
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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by Marine Corps Codu » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:29 pm

Good day and congratulations on your new found friend! I hope you have many miles of pain free excitement and fun.

I will let the mechanical experts/geniuses answer your mechanical questions, but will just say DO NOT LUG IT!! DO NOT LUG IT!! DO NOT LUG IT!!
Keith Birkhofer
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Former Bikes:
1947 Cushman Motor Scooter
1958 Cushman/Sears Motor Scooter
1964 Yamaguchi
1965 Honda 250
1968 KZ1000
1960 Honda 55 (2 of them)
2002 Honda Gold Wing GL1800
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2005 BMW R1200GS
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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by windmill » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:35 pm

Scup wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:01 pm



How about shifting? Its hard to hear the engine with the quite pipes and wind, Is there a shift pattern? 1st to 2nd above 10mph, 2nd to 3rd above 30mph, 3rd to 4th above 50mph etc?
Is there anything to be aware of when it comes to this engine/trans? Don’t lug it? Don’t wind it out?
Does the engine have a rev limiter?

The rev limiter is around 6300 rpm.

Don't over think it, no need to make it unnecessarily complicated. If it does nothing or bogs down when giving it throttle at lower rpm, downshift. If rpm keeps on going up at higher rpm when giving it throttle, downshift.

FYI, there's threads on how to enable tachometer function on speedometer.

Simply saying shift at X rpm, speed, or according to some chart without taking into account engine load is misleading and counter productive.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by Lofty » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:39 pm

Welcome, Scup, to 2018 Ural ownership.

The torque specification chart is on p. 1-5 of the 2018 Owner's Manual.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... ressed.pdf

The advice to not lug the engine is repeated.

You can give the throttle a bit more stick than you might guess between gear changes, but it should not be wrung out like a sport bike. With a bit of time, you'll learn the mood of your engine, and where it's happiest in each gear. This will of course depend on the work you're asking it to do: loaded side car (or not), hills, and so on.
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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by aduthie » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:50 pm

Welcome!

I agree with "Do not lug it!" as the primary riding advice. Your shift point guesses are quite low/early. For example, I don't use fourth gear unless I plan to ride at 60 mph or faster. Or maybe when cruising at 55 mph on level ground with a little bit of a tailwind. Ural's engineers will say "ride it like you stole it, let the rev limiter protect the engine, and just don't lug it."

Regarding bolt torques, I'm not surprised you found a couple that took 1/4-1/2 turn before reaching the specified torque. When you go to retorque the heads, they're going to move pretty far, too. (Loosen one until it "cracks," tighten to 50 Nm, repeat for the other three. If you just try to tighten to 50 Nm, the results are significantly different, in my experience. Ural also says to loosen first; some folks on the forum will disagree.)

Of the rest of the bolts, I mainly recommend keeping an eye on those four nuts where the final drive mounts to the swingarm. Especially on bikes with the black powertrain (which is 85-90% of them by the time yours was built), you need to check those nuts often until they finally settle in. Don't worry about getting an exact torque -- I've found a modest pull with a 17mm box wrench is enough. If you want to be more precise, use a torque wrench on the one easy one, then feel it with your box wrench and get the other three to match.

Check your spokes once in a while, too.
Andrew Duthie / Nashville Motorcycle Repair / Nashville, TN

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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by windmill » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:53 pm

Not lugging is correct, but often misunderstood.

Its not simply low rpm, its low rpm at high load, and high throttle input.

For example,
35 mph in 4th gear on a level road with the throttle opened 1/8 to maintain speed isnt lugging.
50 mph in 4th gear up a steep hill with the throttle wide open to maintain speed is lugging.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by RC20 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:20 pm

Ok, my take on shifts.

Max First: 35 roughly. When you shift below that depends on how fast you want to accelerate and how loaded the right is.

Into 2: Minimum shift 25 mph (can be a bit faster and load matters). Rev limiter in 2nd is about 45-50 mph

Into 3: 35 mph , Rev Limiter in 3rd is 65-70 (that makes it a very useful gear)

Into 4th.: 45-50. Rev limit is up past 85 (if you dare go that fast)

3200 rpm in the next gear is about the lowest you want to be for normal acceleration. I go with 3400-3600.
Last edited by RC20 on Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by RC20 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:26 pm

Ural also says to loosen first; some folks on the forum will disagree.)
I don't feel its needed, it does not hurt. At least int he manual we get it makes no mention of loosening.

Technically if you loosen one you should loosen all then run the pattern up through stages of 25% to final.

Realistically on gas engines I never found it an issue, I did have one loose nut on mine and just tightened it.

I will check it again this spring as its possible it was over tightened and now is in the plastic range. Did not feel like it as it took and held torque when I checked back after valve checks and before putting cover on.

As I had over 2000 miles on it when I first checked it (supposedly it was done at 800 miles when I got to a dealer in the area I was passing through but staying in for a couple of weeks) . If they checked it they sure missed it.
Last edited by RC20 on Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by RC20 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:29 pm

If you can get to it, check it. I have cross checked the Ural manual vs recommended torque for Grade 5 class Metric fasteners. They are the same as dry thread torque (no lube).

If you lube then you need to get the chart for that. PM me if you want it.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

Scup
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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by Scup » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:45 am

Thanks for all your answers, better to hear that having non-torqued to specs nuts/bolts are normal rather than thinking all the torque values are out of whack. Those swing arm nuts are really scary though were I can see a quarter of the nut threads.
Anyway yesterday was the ultimate day for the Ural, we went 3up in 50 degree weather, wife’s sister came for the weekend and both had smiles from ear to ear having me stop so they could swap seats and amazingly for me they both said the enduro seat worked for them sitting behind my fata$$, so yeah I’m loving it.
A couple observations while riding is yeah… I would say that I lug the engine more than I should, so moving forward I’ll keep the rpm’s up and shift more. Shifting… geez this thing makes a ton of noise when shifting. Doesn’t seem to matter how I shift its clanging and clunking unless you’re supposed to double clutch lol.
Another observation is with someone in the hack the right side mirror is somewhat useless while trying to use it to merge into traffic (we have some left lane merge lanes here). My plan is to get some larger aftermarket mirrors.
All n All we are loving the Ural… been wanting one for years and all the stars aligned last month and so glad we pulled the trigger.
I'm sure more questions will follow, Thanks again
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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by jvan1954 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:37 am

When I first got mine I read the back wrenching/newbie posts on here whenever I had time. It was time well spent as it would indicate what to expect as far as issues specific to my machine. The good news is you only have to go back to 2018.
After a while you get used to all the shifting noise and the various creepy sounds that yours makes, then you can tell if you are pushing too hard or if something new is happening by changes in the whirring, clanging and banging.
On shifting. The advice that helped me the most was to think of how a semi sounds taking off and do the same. Urals are not made for speed shifting. When I get it right mine makes no more noise when I shift with or without the clutch. Out of 57 years of habit I use the clutch upshifting, but rarely when going down.
They really are simple machines. Stay on the maintenance, don't ask too much out of them and they are fairly robust. Mine still has me grinning after 2 years of daily use.
Jerry Van

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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by aduthie » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:50 am

The biggest trick I learned for shifting better was to actually use my heel for upshifts, instead of my toe like on most bikes. Side benefit: the rubber on the front of the shift pedal stayed in place once I stopped lifting it with my toe.
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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by Scup » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:35 pm

aduthie wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:50 am
The biggest trick I learned for shifting better was to actually use my heel for upshifts, instead of my toe like on most bikes. Side benefit: the rubber on the front of the shift pedal stayed in place once I stopped lifting it with my toe.

I'm a toe/heel shifter... though this shifter configuration is anything but a heel/toe shifter with the work boots I ride in. For me I now find it more of a toe/toe shifter, stomping with my toe on the toe and heel shifter.
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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by windmill » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:58 pm

Scup wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:35 pm
aduthie wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:50 am
The biggest trick I learned for shifting better was to actually use my heel for upshifts, instead of my toe like on most bikes. Side benefit: the rubber on the front of the shift pedal stayed in place once I stopped lifting it with my toe.

I'm a toe/heel shifter... though this shifter configuration is anything but a heel/toe shifter with the work boots I ride in. For me I now find it more of a toe/toe shifter, stomping with my toe on the toe and heel shifter.
I use the arch/ball of my foot on the "heel" portion. We're all built differently.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018/20 M70

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Re: New to me 2018 Gear Up... now with questions.

Post by Lofty » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:25 pm

Scup wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:35 pm
I'm a toe/heel shifter... though this shifter configuration is anything but a heel/toe shifter with the work boots I ride in.

For me I now find it more of a toe/toe shifter, stomping with my toe on the toe and heel shifter.
"Stomping" a motorcycle shift lever to effect gear changes will damage the shift dogs in short order. A firm press with your heel, correctly timed, is sufficient for proper upshifts and will of course prolong the life of a not-inexpensive drivetrain component. Use similar presses with your toe for downshifts, also.

https://www.cycleforums.com/threads/shi ... cs.290642/
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