Terrified

Newbies, introduce yourself here. Are you thinking about getting one and have questions? Ask your basic questions here. Please post any tech questions in "The Order of The Greasy Wrench" section.
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Here's the place for those who are newb or thinking about buying a Ural or Dnepr to introduce themselves ask those typical "newbie" questions. Try using the "Search" link at the top of the page to see if your question may have been asked before. Please post any tech questions in "The Order of the Greasy Wrench" section.
rougaroo
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Re: Terrified

Post by rougaroo » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:54 am

Re: protractors, levels, etc.

Every smartphone these days, whether Apple, Android, or other, has free bubble level apps available for download with readings into single degrees. Use some sort of straight edge as a base for the phone and you can read your lean-out without spending any (more) money.

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Rich Maund
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Re: Terrified

Post by Rich Maund » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:19 am

After 20 years of being on the Ural forums, I have to say I am really impressed with the quality of the advice being handed out here. Back in the day, only a few of us were actual technicians and folks would try to be helpful by handing out half assed info they had "heard" somewhere on the net. I look at this thread and every post is helpful with proven experience and solutions. Well done folks!
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OHScot
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Re: Terrified

Post by OHScot » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:31 pm

They are quirky beasts. Best for quirky people.

Get it set up and try not to hit anything too hard.

Relax enjoy, don't be in a rush.
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RC20
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Re: Terrified

Post by RC20 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:52 pm

Sport on.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

RC20
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Re: Terrified

Post by RC20 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:53 pm

Every smartphone these days, whether Apple, Android, or other, has free bubble level apps available for download with readings into single degrees. Use some sort of straight edge as a base for the phone and you can read your lean-out without spending any (more) money.
We are old fashioned, smart phone free and proud :oops:
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

RC20
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Re: Terrified

Post by RC20 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:01 pm

Peter Pan wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:21 am
one small thing....Alaska and Yukon roads = tilt and counter steer all the day.
The equilibrium sense gets connected to the shoulders.
I remember a day close to the border, I stepped off the bike, moved the arms and nearly fell over. I couldn't walk straight. It was like a sailor stepping first moment onto solid ground.
Your roads up there drop to right a lot... and you wake up very fast when you suddenly have to counter steer to right..... I was close to go into the left swamp :shock:
I was surprised that despite the right pull or counter (seemed pretty consistent from Portland, Madras Oregon and B'Ham run as well as Haines on North) that I was not crippled up at the end of the day. Two long run days of 12 and 16 hours (not all driving, fuel, food and walk around breaks)

What did get me up around the AK/Canada border was the horrible AK side roads. Had an old muscle pull under the shoulder blade that I had managed up to then, took me 3 weeks of icing down to get it back under control.

Pain or not, it was a fantastic trip.

I didn't push past what I was comfortable with and once I got things figured out for the movement did fine driving and the trip was just wonderful.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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BinDerSmokDat
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Re: Terrified

Post by BinDerSmokDat » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:32 pm

Like RC20 I have a 30 year old magnetic base angle finder that I used in the beginning.
Now that I know what I need to set the bike up to my preferences, I just eyeball it.
I now run almost zero lean, as that is my preference for off-roading.
Being larger and taller then most Uralistas AND riding a lot offroad, this makes it a little harder for the sidecar wheel to lift, especially when hitting a big stump/rock with the hack wheel.

Ideally you want the side car wheel 90 degrees to the ground and you want the sidecar frame parallel to the ground, both front to back and left to right.
THEN you adjust the lean out on the bike.
You may have to go back to the doglegs and kajigger them to get the sidecar frame back to 90/parallel after you tweak lean.
Some guys insist on leveling based on the angle the tub sits, as they don't think it "looks right" to have the sidecar nose up or down.

Also the Ural sources state that you lay a straight edge along the front wheel AND rear wheel to measure toe in/out.
Almost all OTHER sidecar sources say to put the straight edge parallel to only the rear wheel, front wheel be damned.
That is because the front wheel may not always be pointed straight ahead as you are going down the road, depending on crown, head or crosswinds, accelerating/decelerating etc.
Since I started using the rear wheel-only method, I find it better at dialing in the toe.

TombstoneLuke, just remember that a sidecar rig takes all the best parts of 2 wheel and 4 wheel vehicle handling and throws them out the window.
What's left is terrifying and exhilarating all at once. As time goes on, the terror fades as you learn about the handling of the bike.
Operating and setting up the bike is one part rocket surgery and one part voodoo.
Just remember that it is COMPLETELY NORMAL for the bike to lurch at every input change.

Roll off throttle, bike wants to move left as the sidecar pivots around the bike.
Roll on the throttle, bike wants to lurch right as it tries to pivot around the sidecar.
Apply front brake, sidecar tries to pivot around bike.
Apply rear brake, bike usually wants to pivot around the sidecar (depending how you have the brakes setup.)

I highly suggest you try and find a local Uralista and swap advice.
Preferably have him follow behind you and give you some input as to how you are handling the bike.
I did that 10 years ago when NiteBlues came over to welcome me into the fold and it was a big help.
His bike was largely the same as mine, just a few years older.
Below is a pic from that ride and you can see minor differences in the angle of the frames, sidecar, lean etc.
He is the one who helped me realize I had way too much lean as set-up by the dealer.
Don't assume the dealer set-up is right for YOU, there is a lot of variation.

Image
Image

Do lots of back street and parking lot practice, get a feel for what the bike does and when, it will provide you with clues on what is "normal" and what to adjust.
I can say that at a typical Ural meet-up if there are 12 bikes you won't find two set-up the same.
But an experienced Uralista can jump on any bike and ride it just fine, but it will feel "weird" to them.

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Mr Wazzock
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Re: Terrified

Post by Mr Wazzock » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:51 pm

Image

BinDerSmokDat wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:32 pm
Roll off throttle, bike wants to move left as the sidecar pivots around the bike.
Roll on the throttle, bike wants to lurch right as it tries to pivot around the sidecar.
As an aside, I was taught from the get go you can use that effect as an aid to making turns, that is, you use the mass of the sidecar to work for you instead of against you. For driving on the right rigs (I'm in the UK so opposite applies :D ), accelerating helps making right turns (slow right down first!), throttle off helps left turns, and braking or slowing down for the curve is late. Note however the greatest effect is only had in the lower gears, the effect isn't great in top gear so need to adapt your approach accordingly.
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

RC20
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Re: Terrified

Post by RC20 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:11 pm

As noted by others, I am finding its shifting to auto mode and I don't even think about it most of the time.

In town riding has taught me a lot, as noted above, lower gears more affect and more maneuvering.

I don't say the old gauge type indicators are better, no one had any use for it once the Falks were gone and I liberated it (excess to needs but without asking :P )
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

jeffsaline
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Re: Terrified

Post by jeffsaline » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:38 pm

You can get an angle indicator like the one picked up by RC20 for about $15 at any decent hardware store. Whether it will meet your needs depends on what your needs are. I have a digital protractor and an angle indicator and depending on the need I choose what is appropriate. I suppose a guy could use a plumb bob and a bit of math to get good results too.

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Jeff
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sKiZo
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Re: Terrified

Post by sKiZo » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:26 pm

At least I've never had a Ural try to kick back and throw me into a gas pump when I try starting it ... <G>
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rougaroo
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Re: Terrified

Post by rougaroo » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:33 pm

I suppose a guy could use a plumb bob and a bit of math to get good results too.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37207&hilit=lean+out

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Tombstoneluke
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Re: Terrified

Post by Tombstoneluke » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:10 pm

I went today and took instruction from a Pro, and now I'm no longer terrified. I am very happy, so I appreciate all of the advice from everyone. I can now fly the chair at will anytime I like and am enjoying myself immensely.

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Tombstoneluke
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Re: Terrified

Post by Tombstoneluke » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:12 pm

I appreciate all the advice and offers of assistance. A half day of instruction from Danny at Portland Ural has allayed all of my fears and I'm now enjoying myself immensely. Thank you Danny and a hats off to him and the folks at Portland Ural.

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BigJames
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Re: Terrified

Post by BigJames » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:31 pm

oh my word you all have created a monster, cool... :foilhead:
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