Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Newbies, introduce yourself here. Are you thinking about getting one and have questions? Ask your basic questions here. Please post any tech questions in "The Order of The Greasy Wrench" section.
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Here's the place for those who are newb or thinking about buying a Ural or Dnepr to introduce themselves ask those typical "newbie" questions. Try using the "Search" link at the top of the page to see if your question may have been asked before. Please post any tech questions in "The Order of the Greasy Wrench" section.
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Claus
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Claus » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 pm

The green rig you found on your last link is a original Ural color. The wheite fuel tank rubber liner was original to that color (I seem to remeber that it was for M67)
The color you found under the paint could be original but I´m not sure. Almost all garden fences are painted in that color in Irbit. That might have two reasons:
1st: It was a color they could pilfer in the Ural factory (then I could be the real thing)
2nd: If is a fence color and someone painted the rig with it :lol:
(I reckon, the first reason is more likely)

The riveted fender hoop could be o.k. I used to own a M67 police solo Ural. All fenders were mounted like that (where the welding to the strut seems more like a rural attempt to repair it)

The FIN on the left rear shock mount is normal for a civil bike of this era.

The plunger cover´s head should be a flat domed plug without that high brim
Image
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Macabry
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Macabry » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:01 pm

:D Thanks for that .... very informative :D

Regarding the colour..... I'm as sceptical as you about original colours but things like the engine brackets (see the pics) and the the seat frame also being that colour suggests to me it's original.

A - these are parts that would need a complete dissasembly to paint
B - they are parts for plunger framed bikes (seat frame in particular) - ruling out later parts addition ( possibly m62 I suppose)
C- they are properly sprayed and coated unlike the later and very obvious paint jobs - see the toolbox interior pic.

Regards,
Shane
"There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games"

History:
Honda C70, Honda C90, Mobylette (various), Suzuki GP125, Suzuki DR100, Suzuki DR400, Suzuki GN400, Dnepr K750 rig, BSA M20 (1940),

Current:
IMZ M61 - exact year unknown (Reg'd as 1961)
Suzuki DR400 (Basket case)

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Macabry
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Macabry » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:07 pm

These are what i mean about small parts needing removal/dissasembly:
20191031_155752.jpg
20191031_155616.jpg
Bearing in mind every other paint addition is slap dash and obviously crap.


If i sand down the paint at the tank irbit logo (which is visible) I'll be able to confirm the colour .... however, as the paint chips back to the turquoise base on the tank too I'm practically sure.

Surprising 8)
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"There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games"

History:
Honda C70, Honda C90, Mobylette (various), Suzuki GP125, Suzuki DR100, Suzuki DR400, Suzuki GN400, Dnepr K750 rig, BSA M20 (1940),

Current:
IMZ M61 - exact year unknown (Reg'd as 1961)
Suzuki DR400 (Basket case)

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Claus
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:19 pm
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Claus » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:19 pm

The civil green color that it appears to be in deed had a reason in the USSR. In case of military defense all rigs could be seized to supplement the military fleet. In this case it was beneficial they were already green. The rig´s color had to be described in the title.
(where I ask myself what purpose they would have used them for in the end of the 80ies. Throwing them on the enemies by catapults?)
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Macabry
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Macabry » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:30 pm

:D industrial paperweights :D

My description and pics might be a bit misleading .... not to mention viewed on a screen ..... it's really more of a duck egg turqouise than a green :)

I've only ever seen later bikes with it .... but i don't know the history of it :)

Basically, the logo appears to be on top of it and so it places the colour as early sixties .... who knew ???
"There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games"

History:
Honda C70, Honda C90, Mobylette (various), Suzuki GP125, Suzuki DR100, Suzuki DR400, Suzuki GN400, Dnepr K750 rig, BSA M20 (1940),

Current:
IMZ M61 - exact year unknown (Reg'd as 1961)
Suzuki DR400 (Basket case)

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propwash
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by propwash » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:27 pm

My favorite Ural color!
I think they should bring it back for a color option or special edition on new Urals.

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Macabry
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Macabry » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:34 pm

8) :D ..... i can't decide if i love it or hate it :D
"There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games"

History:
Honda C70, Honda C90, Mobylette (various), Suzuki GP125, Suzuki DR100, Suzuki DR400, Suzuki GN400, Dnepr K750 rig, BSA M20 (1940),

Current:
IMZ M61 - exact year unknown (Reg'd as 1961)
Suzuki DR400 (Basket case)

GregAus
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by GregAus » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:48 pm

Macabry wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:56 pm
Yep .... i agree .... i think it's a later setup (?m66). I am almost certain the m61 had a fork setup that was unique. It was a development between the m72 and the m62.

I have already decided that she's going to get an original m72 front end ..... the reason behind my logic is:

- Her fender is original to her (same paint layers and modded to fit the frankenstein forks) and the same as a late m72
- the m61 shrouds are very close the m72 ones and quite unlike m62 onwards
- m61 original forks would be like hens teeth to find and no appreciable improvement for my intended use.

I have toyed with the idea CJ forks .... but I've found the quality of new stuff to be so so bad and hit or miss at best. Plus i want to keep her soviet and irbit as much as possible.
Very early M-61 had M-72 forks and shrouds. Later model shrouds are the same as M-62, M-63. The ignition in the headlight ear starts with the M-67. All 650 fork internals will fit the M-61 as shown by the part number 6108021, but there are different sliders and perhaps fork seals.
0032.jpg
There are at least two types of front mudguards, and your plungers are longer than the M-72 type.
M-61 1.jpg
M-61 1959-2.jpg
m-61.jpg
m-61f.jpg
M-62 1964.jpg
You can use the TLS backing plate if you glue rubber into the "U" to remove the slop from the smaller diameter slider.
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Macabry
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Macabry » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:08 pm

Thanks GregAus, that's some great info. Thanks so much for the research and pics..... the first bikes fenders with the second bike downs turqouise colour is probably a pretty good guess at what mine was like when new.

Given your info, i might be persuaded to just swap the shrouds and ears to an earlier type and be done with it ..... I'm fairly happy to keep a tls front brake ... !!!

Regards,
Shane
"There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games"

History:
Honda C70, Honda C90, Mobylette (various), Suzuki GP125, Suzuki DR100, Suzuki DR400, Suzuki GN400, Dnepr K750 rig, BSA M20 (1940),

Current:
IMZ M61 - exact year unknown (Reg'd as 1961)
Suzuki DR400 (Basket case)

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Macabry
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Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:20 am

Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Macabry » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:27 pm

No progress or investigations today, I'm on night shifts :cry:

But, I've been trying to look up original paint codes (RAL etc.) for ural paint of the 50s and 60s ..... anyone know a source?

Thanks in advance,
Shane
"There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games"

History:
Honda C70, Honda C90, Mobylette (various), Suzuki GP125, Suzuki DR100, Suzuki DR400, Suzuki GN400, Dnepr K750 rig, BSA M20 (1940),

Current:
IMZ M61 - exact year unknown (Reg'd as 1961)
Suzuki DR400 (Basket case)

GregAus
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by GregAus » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:21 pm

There won't be RAL colour standard, not for Soviet paint, though there will be a Soviet GOSTSTANDART, but good luck in finding it. A quick search for ГОСТ краски и лаки came up with over 100 GOST. Add to the fact that GOST date from the late 1960s, then rocking horse sh!t is easier to find.

The colours will be the same as used on Soviet cars of the period. Generally, your best bet is to find a bit of unworn paint somewhere and get it scanned by a paint shop for an appropriate mixture. I've done that on restorations of old Japanese bikes and it's worked well.

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Macabry
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Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Macabry » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:55 am

:D Ha ...... you've read my mind :D

I had been a bit surprised by how little I could find :(

I'll find an undamaged and covered part that has been preserved then I'll cut the paint back a little with compound and get it scanned ...... could be cool to see what we get 8)


Thanks again for your reply.
Shane
"There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games"

History:
Honda C70, Honda C90, Mobylette (various), Suzuki GP125, Suzuki DR100, Suzuki DR400, Suzuki GN400, Dnepr K750 rig, BSA M20 (1940),

Current:
IMZ M61 - exact year unknown (Reg'd as 1961)
Suzuki DR400 (Basket case)

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Macabry
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Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:20 am

Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Macabry » Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:51 pm

Today's meagre trip to the garage
So, before the complete strip down I'm trying to complete necessary bodywork and measurements that will help when rebuilding. I've done some frame measuring to ensure everything is straight and ....it is :boogie:

The fender will need some straightening and tinkering to get it to a "better than factory" finish but other than that all is well.

Two questions that have popped up though:

1) as she had a Dnepr gearbox, the driveshaft had been shortened ... its a simple and straight mod that I'm happy with. However, the shaft is a bit rough .... does an off the shelf shortened shaft exist? ....i assume not so I'll probably lathe it down and reinforce if necessary.

2) given that i hope to update the electricks and i want a functioning bike with at least acceptable headlights i am planning to go with LEDs to limit draw and a 6v halogen headlight.... she will be getting a new loom anyway so should i get rid of the pp302 regulator .... and does anyone recommend a good 6v replacement ? (Several available through ebay/zentrale/oldtimers etc.

I've rebuilt/tuned a pp302 in the past and it was fine .... but i think a straight solid state swap just eliminates potential problems ...any opinions ???


Thanks,
Shane
"There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games"

History:
Honda C70, Honda C90, Mobylette (various), Suzuki GP125, Suzuki DR100, Suzuki DR400, Suzuki GN400, Dnepr K750 rig, BSA M20 (1940),

Current:
IMZ M61 - exact year unknown (Reg'd as 1961)
Suzuki DR400 (Basket case)

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Macabry
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Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:20 am

Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Macabry » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:34 pm

The driveshaft as is:
20191105_173408.jpg
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"There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games"

History:
Honda C70, Honda C90, Mobylette (various), Suzuki GP125, Suzuki DR100, Suzuki DR400, Suzuki GN400, Dnepr K750 rig, BSA M20 (1940),

Current:
IMZ M61 - exact year unknown (Reg'd as 1961)
Suzuki DR400 (Basket case)

User avatar
Claus
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 689
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Hello from a new IMZ M61 owner.

Post by Claus » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:59 pm

I recall the M61 having the short frame, so it´s got the short shaft already. (We used to take this shaft to fit Dnepr transmissions into the newer (longer) Ural. I reckon, you´ve got to tinker with what you´ve got to make it more shiny.

I was not really satisfied with the electronic regulators I could purchase. But the last one I bought was in 2009. There might have been changes in qualtiy since.
You might want to check if you´ve got negative or positive ground first. Either you change everything to negative ground prior to repairing your bike or take care you get the right components for positive ground. (if you want to use LED lights, there is only negative ground, I suppose)
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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