OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

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RC20
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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by RC20 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:20 pm

Harbinger wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:06 pm
Next stupid question - Do I need to remove the seat to get to the battery for a jump or to charge ? I removed the side panel but it look a little tight. If so is there an easy way to do it? Looks to be a little bit of a pain compared to other bikes I've owned.
As noted, that one of the issues is its damned tight. Ergo, pull the negative off the battery and you can do it but its still iffy connection as its tight near the starter hot lug.

I have the permanent jumper wires installed.

Several setups for it, mine is specif to the Anti Gravity Zero start but others out there.

Better safe than sorry.

You can pull the ground on the outside if you want to work in the area of the starter to make the connection (that is what I did)

As long as there is no ref (negative) then the system is inert.

You don't have jaws of a jumper cable going across to the metal (ground)
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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by windmill » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:02 am

If the the polarity isn't reversed, ignition is off, and cables are connected in the correct order the ecu will not be damaged. Get any of those wrong and the ecu may be damaged. The size and type of vehicle doesn't matter.

A Ural uses a Nippon-Denso automotive alternator, rated output 40A, 480W, peak output 560W.
Plenty of folks run car, marine, or deep cycle batteries on their Ural.
The most recommended portable jump starters for motorcycles are automotive units.

Correct procedure, not the jump source is what matters.
Barry

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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by Harbinger » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:00 am

Just an FYI that using a marine battery I was able to plug in to the sidecar adapter and after a few days it did the trick. Maybe a little strange that it worked but it did! Glad it saved me the hassle of removing the seat and some of the skin off the back of my hand...
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RC20
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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by RC20 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:54 pm

Actually this would be the best choice for a broad range of ops - very compact.

https://antigravitybatteries.com/produc ... arts/xp-1/

The XP-3 will work fine as well. I got the XP-1 because it has more features that appealed to me. the XP-3 is fully capable of a couple of truck starts at least with partial battery) Certainly more than enough for a 750 cc cycle.

Add this adapter as a permanent hook up (the pack connection sites nicely behind the left side cover) and you are good to go. I took the battery negative loose and put the cycle side connectors on the Positive to the Starter and the negative on a handy ground. Good to go. Did not have to remove the seat and with the battery negative disconnected there was no ground ref and you cannot short anything out while doing the work.

Don't get me wrong, I have no fear of this stuff, I did hundreds of batteries over my career, but I managed to have very few shorts and being careful is the way to go.

https://antigravitybatteries.com/produc ... r-xp1-xp3/

Not only do you have an emergency jump on hand that is good enough to start a Truck , you also can charge cell phones, run fans (in my case) recharge your tent light. It has LEDs to tell you when it needs to be charged and not to try to start with less than 3 LEDs power availability so you do not have to be max charge (more so for the Ural 750 engine). With the jumper setup you can recharge out of the Ural European power adapter.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by Snakeoil » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:12 pm

Since you have been clear about not having a clue about this stuff, let me state a few things that probably seem obvious to everyone here, but might not be to you.

You CANNOT "jump" a battery from another battery using the accessory receptacle on the bike or a charging connector, such as that which would be installed if you used a Battery Tender and installed their on-bike charging cord. These connections are only for low amperage (current) applications.

Don't put a car battery charger on your Ural battery. General rule is 10% of the battery rated current is what you want coming out of your battery charger. A Battery Tender Plus puts out 1.25 amps and the Junior puts out .75 amps. A car charger can put out anywhere from 5 to 100 amps depending on the charger/booster. It can damage your battery by boiling the electrolyte.

I suggest you put a charger on the battery right now, unless you jump it and then ride it until the battery is fully charged again. Reason being, is leaving a battery in a severely discharged state can cause permanent damage and shorten the life of the battery. Go buy a Battery Tender Plus. They have a feature that works better with AGM batteries and I suspect it won't be long before all bike batteries and maybe even cars will be AGM type batteries. I have both BT Plus and Jr models. Both work well. Also have a Battery Minder, which has their high frequency pulse feature that supposedly breaks up hard sulfate deposits. I've never been able to determine if their claims are legit. I tend to think it's more gimmick than anything else.
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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by RC20 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:15 pm

Just my thoughts on the situation

Car charger is fine unless you leave it on more than an hour (its either going to charge it or not in that time)

What a car charger does is an equalize which will break up sulfation (if that is an or is the issue) and if it does not, nothing will.

The battery tenders are fine if you have equipment with a batteries that just sits all winter. Still not good to just let machinery sit and then fire up 4 months or 6 months latter. Guilty on the snow blower and lawn mower but those are pretty large clearance machines.

Me? I fire the Ural up regularly . Better yet I am still riding it (we don't even have any snow on the ground yet). When we do I have studded tire to put on rear (front is lightly studded). Will at least run around the blocks when (if) snow hits.

Battery should easily be good for 3 months sitting. If it won't then time for a new battery though you can limp them through with electron IV drip. Still at that point its going down.

So far down to around 10 deg it fires up fine even with a bit of a weak battery.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by codemonkey001 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:38 pm

Lokiboy wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:03 pm
If you’re not gong to ride in the next day or so, and want to skip jumping the battery, then buy a “Battery Tender Jr.” Easy to hook up to you battery and you leave it connected for use next time.
And if you've got an American-style cigarette lighter socket in the sidecar you can get an SAE to cigarette lighter adapter and plug the battery tender in that way. No covers to remove.
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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by scottmastrocinque » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:14 pm

For me, I have the 4amp Battery Tender for Lithium or AGM batteries. It works great.

My problem is the my 2017 has a constant drain on the battery and it is my belief it comes from the digital speedo. I cannot find anything else which would drain my battery but if I don’t put it on the tender, then 7-10 days later, she will not start. I have replaced the battery and it works fine except for this constant discharge situation.

Anybody else?
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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by Wildhorse Cafe » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:20 pm

I have a battery tender equiped with a male cigarette plug that I connect into the sidecar which works well. Just a word to the wise.
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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by windmill » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:36 pm

scottmastrocinque wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:14 pm
For me, I have the 4amp Battery Tender for Lithium or AGM batteries. It works great.

My problem is the my 2017 has a constant drain on the battery and it is my belief it comes from the digital speedo. I cannot find anything else which would drain my battery but if I don’t put it on the tender, then 7-10 days later, she will not start. I have replaced the battery and it works fine except for this constant discharge situation.

Anybody else?
The digital speedo does have a constant draw for the clock, but it's miniscule, and shouldn't drain a battery that quick.
If you have any electric accessories you might try disconnecting them one at a time.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018 M70

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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by RC20 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:22 pm

Digital speedo may not be turning as off as it should.

Easy enough to put a current meter in line and see.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC ala Shaft Drive Nighthawk S (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K

Current:
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

What I Did (I quit June 2 , 2019)
Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by windmill » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:19 am

RC20 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:22 pm
Digital speedo may not be turning as off as it should.

Easy enough to put a current meter in line and see.
It doesn't turn off, it always hot and draws some current for the clock, to maintain some data, and saved back light settings. When the switch is off it only cuts power to the indicator and back lights.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by GoatTracks » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:11 am

FWIW- I just connect my battery tender alligator clips to the hot (positive) terminal of the battery (easily accessible from under the removable side cover), and clamp the other one to the frame (negative ground). Works fine. I haven't bothered to try to pull the battery out to install a permanent pigtail yet cuz it's a PITA so I'm just gonna wait till the battery needs replaced and do it then.
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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by Lofty » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:18 pm

GoatTracks wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:11 am
I haven't bothered to try to pull the battery out to install a permanent pigtail yet cuz it's a PITA so I'm just gonna wait till the battery needs replaced and do it then.
I agree that accessing the Ural battery requires some investment of labor. That said, and FWIW, installing an SAE pigtail harness provides a connection for several things:

-The Battery Tender itself (provided you can't connect it through the outlet in the sidecar, if yours is so equipped)
-Volt meter https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-0 ... B00DJ5KE9A
-USB connector* https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-0 ... ive&sr=1-4
-12V air pump https://www.aerostich.com/cycle-pump-ai ... essor.html
-Heated clothing https://www.aerostich.com/aerostich-kan ... -vest.html
-Anything else that can be safely powered with a 12V SAE connection

Installing the pigtail is worth the effort.

*When wired to an unswitched power source, USB charging connections do have a small parasitic current draw.
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Re: OK so I'm an idjuit - dead battery

Post by Stryker » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:03 am

I also use a Battery Tender. I installed a SAE pigtail to the battery and connect the Battery Tender through that I also installed a cigarette lighter style power port on the handle bars with a SAE end. when on the road I connect this to the SAE pigtail attached to the Battery which also serves to connect to the Battery Tender when in the garage.
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