Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

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OleanderSalad
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Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by OleanderSalad » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:11 pm

2016 Gear Up (2WD)

At low speed (5--25) the sidecar wheel makes a "whirp whirp whirp" sound that relates to the RPMs of the wheel.

I got a grease gun and fed the drive shaft zerks some grey molly grease at both ends, but the whirp persisted.

Everything over there was kind of squeeky, so I put some Ivan juice (WD40) on it and the squeeks left, but the whirp stayed.

Do I need to pull the wheel and grease the splines, or bearings (or whatever I find in there)?

...or just get comfortable with the whirp?

(I had my monkey kneel in the bucket and lean out to watch it, but she says she didn't see anything but a tire spinning and making a whirp noise)

Speeding Up: whirp-------whirp------whirp-----whirp----whirp---whirp-whirp-whirp-whirpwhirpwhirpwhirp....
2016 Grey Metallic Gear Up, "Lexi" (CV-16)

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Lmo
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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by Lmo » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:47 pm

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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by tgtrotter » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:22 pm

I'll throw in...

I don't think whirps are good. If you had to ask, you know the answer.

I see you have a 2016. May be that the sidecar brake rotor has warpped a bit ?

If you can narrow it to the disc you may be able check runout while mounted. But I'd be curious of the temp compared to the other discs after riding. I'm sure there will be some variance but if one disc is drastically hot, then....

Good luck. Happy hunting.

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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by Mr Wazzock » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:32 pm

Image

Pull caliper and give everything a good coating of looking at
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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by Lofty » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:34 pm

As a general point only, drive splines do require recurring checks/lubrication. I'm partial to Loctite moly paste for that purpose.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
(Formerly labeled as LB 8012.)

Image

Take care when removing the sidecar wheel. If a spacer (washer) is present, it will need to be refitted in the same position and orientation as existed prior to its removal.
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OleanderSalad
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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by OleanderSalad » Mon May 04, 2020 9:43 am

I finally pulled the car wheel off and cured the whoops with a finger-load of grey molly grease.

The noise stopped just after I posted this about a month ago. I was a little worried that whatever was making noise finally broke, but then the noise came back about a week ago---even worse than before. Not sure if it was ignorance, indecision, or indolence, but I was equating the car wheel with the pusher wheel for level of difficulty so I waited until yesterday morning when I had a couple of hours to mess with it. No need. The whole deed was done in under a half hour. It would have been 15 minutes flat if it wasn't for a stubborn cotter pin that needed some firm Russian style encouragement using a pair of lineman's pliers and a small sledge hammer. :)

I took my monkey to a (miraculously open) Mexican food restaurant for a real live post-covid dine-in plate of fajitas; when she said she didn't hear the noise anymore I told her, "I greased the splines." She said, "I guess it's true then. The squeaky wheel really DOES get the grease!" (To which I wisely replied, "Yes, you are right.")

Edit: Why did it stop and then come back? Working theory: Splines were really low on grease so it started to squeak, but when the weather warmed what little there was "flowed" into the splines, and then when it really warmed up (low 90s F, ambient) it flowed so much that it spun off.
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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by Peter Pan » Mon May 04, 2020 11:18 am

one very nasty occasional Quirp is when a ball bearing has eaten up the cage, the balls block and tend to turn the inner race on the shaft or outer race in the nest...
Have seen that often enough in machines. and it ain't good in a final drive....
it ate that tooth in the left.
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With a DIY foam air filter the rig runs well even in tropical rain = :moto:
Final drives: 1. at 5000km, 2. at 34.000km(+friction plates) 3. at 42.386km
transmission: 1. 40.000km. 2. installed
Engine: 1. 43.388km crank replacement: Back on the road since 23.Okt.2019 :party:

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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by OleanderSalad » Mon May 04, 2020 11:50 am

Peter Pan wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 11:18 am
one very nasty occasional Quirp is when a ball bearing has eaten up the cage, the balls block and tend to turn the inner race on the shaft or outer race in the nest...
Have seen that often enough in machines. and it ain't good in a final drive....
it ate that tooth in the left.
Just assuming here---A) There is no way to tell if that's happened prior to cataclysm. B) I'd need a press to get the caps off the bearing assembly to find out, and C) I'd have to order the whole bearing assembly (and possibly a final drive gear) if that turned out to be the case.

...and D) Damn! I hope not.
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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by RC20 » Mon May 04, 2020 12:35 pm

Keep in mind that in the FD its not a grease situation, its an oil lube and as long as the FD is up to correct level, its a material failure.

You have sealed bearings on that wheel (I don't know what the mfg is). I was highly impressed with the quality of the valve system when I had it open to check adjustment. As good as any diesel I ever worked on. They have come a long ways.

Also note the miles and conditions Sophie Traveler has voyaged under and the era of the machine.

One of those to keep in the back of your mind but not to think its going to be your cause sans more data.

And good to have gotten out. Our local eatery is open only for drive through , so we got our dinner there. Sadly they are too small to be able to open their dining room. We don't eat out for dinner normally, lunch is our big thing (we grew up that way, a burger and fries, malt at the local small burger joint was a highlight for months! - to this day I will take a good burger over a steak)
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1 x CB450K

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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by Peter Pan » Mon May 04, 2020 1:22 pm

Did You locate the quirp finally in a definite place?
Much more likely:
If in the sidecar wheel you should feel some hard to turn spot if the bearings are damaged.
A warped brake disc or badly aligned caliper may make wheel rotational related noises too.

Remote change:
That particular bearing in my photo is the double row bearing at the final drive entrance, the one that keeps the attack pinion in its axial position. (i took it as example photo for visualisation purpose) Due to the traction one row likes to wear. You can see that in 2 ways. (A) while driving the companion looks from sidecar, while you change gas position from gas to engine brake forth and back.)
(B) engine switched off, You have bike in first gear and push hard the bike forward backward against the standing engine.
The u-joint ear flange, entering the final drive shaft, MAY NOT MAKE ANY AXIAL FORWARD BACKWARD MOVEMENT relatively to the FD-housing.
The fatal bearing got that night 5-7mm 1/4" movement (and broke a FD tooth). Already 0,5mm 0,020" would be too much and indicate a worn double row bearing. (no 3204)

Check your u-joints. My 2013Ural came with a bad oval bore, that needed to get honed round at the 500km (or 2500km?) inspection. With disconnected cardan shaft the u-joint swivelled freely only in one direction, the other got stuck

Good luck.
Sven
Sophie Travelair = Patrol 2013
8 weeks 12.000km Oregon-Alaska-Oregon
With a DIY foam air filter the rig runs well even in tropical rain = :moto:
Final drives: 1. at 5000km, 2. at 34.000km(+friction plates) 3. at 42.386km
transmission: 1. 40.000km. 2. installed
Engine: 1. 43.388km crank replacement: Back on the road since 23.Okt.2019 :party:

The Avatar are 2 rice grains stating life's essence:
"The most important you cannot see!"
=> Attitude makes the difference!

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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by Snakeoil » Mon May 04, 2020 8:03 pm

Somebody suggested brakes. When it makes the noise, press slightly on the brake pedal to see if it changes or eliminates the noise.
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Re: Let's Play "What's That Ural Noise?"

Post by Peter Pan » Tue May 05, 2020 10:21 am

dumb guess in the blue: bent sidecar drive shaft hitting a part of frame, boat or some accidentally picked up scrap?

And yes, Sophie Travelair has gone through some TOUGH roads and the sidecar drive shaft did hit many times the boat and frame. (luckily never got bent) Well, you know that strange nut, which connects handlebar with seat. :roll:
Sophie Travelair = Patrol 2013
8 weeks 12.000km Oregon-Alaska-Oregon
With a DIY foam air filter the rig runs well even in tropical rain = :moto:
Final drives: 1. at 5000km, 2. at 34.000km(+friction plates) 3. at 42.386km
transmission: 1. 40.000km. 2. installed
Engine: 1. 43.388km crank replacement: Back on the road since 23.Okt.2019 :party:

The Avatar are 2 rice grains stating life's essence:
"The most important you cannot see!"
=> Attitude makes the difference!

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