Warning, Will Robinsonski

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Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by Bullethead » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:15 pm

Just got a call from an old pal. He’d just tried a jump start on a newish Triumph using a running F250. Okay, I wasn’t there and, he being somewhat frantic, I can only report that the attempt apparently put the Triumph to sleep electronics-wise. Off tomorrow to have a look. That said, please pass on the word that while most bikes will jump okay from a mid to small car...engine off...larger vehicles have charging systems that will fry a bike. Beware!
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by sKiZo » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:20 pm

Also worth mentioning, make sure the jumper cable's ground is hooked to the chassis of the donor instead of the battery post before hooking up the hot. That should eliminate any chance of spark during connection.

PS ... I've got a set of jumper extensions I made years ago out of 8 gauge wire. Lot's easy to hook up and will pass plenty of juice for a bike without frying anything.

And jumping from a running vehicle? That went out with your granddaddy's Hudson, eh. Newer electronics, you're playing with fire. Surprised he didn't take out the truck's electronics as well ...
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by Happytrails » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:02 pm

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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by windmill » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:06 pm

Battery, charger, another vehicle, it doesn't matter. Do it wrong and things can be damaged.
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by RC20 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:00 pm

Bingo: Its not the current its the high voltage spikes.
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by GHGoodwin » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:48 pm

Hopefully it's just a fuse.
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by Bullethead » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:54 pm

Yup. Luckily the bike had a fused ground wire.
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by Desantnik-VDV » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:12 pm

Well, donor car's engine doesn't have to be running if you need to jump a bike. Car's battery provides plenty of cranking amps for a bike, and you can connect battery to battery with bikes ignition key in OFF position. You can then power the bike and crank it. I see no issues doing it this way so. Bike will consume as many amps as needed to power all electronics and start.
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by Mr Wazzock » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:43 pm

Desantnik-VDV wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:12 pm
you can connect battery to battery with bikes ignition key in OFF position ... I see no issues doing it this way
I can, many modern bikes' electronics are permanently connected to battery plus.

Ural EFI ECU's have a constant live feed from battery plus. Not sure what it does tho but the wires are going into the ECU's. Ditto if you got the new type electronic speedo, that's always live too.

Example quote from my Piaggio X10 owner's handbook – if connecting a battery charger while battery still in situ (has a cigar lighter socket so simplest and most obvious way), the charger Voltage must not exceed 14.5V.

However, you would hope designers added reasonable protection to the circuits.
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by Wildhorse Cafe » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:29 pm

Our county had a British armored SWAT vehicle with a Lucas positive ground system, talk about nightmares. Just plugging in a laptop or rigging a radio to work took a lot of ringing of hands and high prayers to the Church of England.
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by Desantnik-VDV » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:18 pm

Mr Wazzock wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:43 pm

Example quote from my Piaggio X10 owner's handbook – if connecting a battery charger while battery still in situ (has a cigar lighter socket so simplest and most obvious way), the charger Voltage must not exceed 14.5V.
Correct. And car batteries usually do not have anywhere close to 14.5V. with engine not running.
High supply Amperage should not be matter. It's like "sticking a syphon into a big barrel...it is going to take as much as it needs". In this case the bike is like the diameter of that syphon hose. The flow rate is not going to change whether the barrel is big or very big, unless the bike has a shortage, etc.

And +/- polarity can be visualized on car's battery, rather than going for cars ground. Avoid cars/trucks/tanks with 24V. system :)
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by GHGoodwin » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:33 pm

Wazzock - constant power to ECU's maintains their "learned" programming. Loss of power returns then to programming values.
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by Lofty » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:02 pm

GHGoodwin wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:33 pm
constant power to ECU's maintains their "learned" programming. Loss of power returns then to programming values.
I disconnected and removed the Ural's battery when wiring in my heated grips. After the battery was refitted, I went for a shakedown ride to test the grips' function. I didn't perceive any difference in the driveability of the rig, on that day or any time thereafter. I say this because my selling dealer downloaded the Off Road map to the ECUs on the day of delivery.

What "learned" ECU programming, if any, did I lose when I disconnected the battery?
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by Mr Wazzock » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:49 pm

Ditto. No difference whatsoever. (Altho I didn't disconnected battery, I unplugged the ignition switch in this case.)

My point was, there's permanently live wires going into the ECU's, so caution required in terms of what Voltage you put on the battery even if ign switched off, possibly. That was all.
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Re: Warning, Will Robinsonski

Post by windmill » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:32 am

Lofty wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:02 pm
I disconnected and removed the Ural's battery when wiring in my heated grips. After the battery was refitted, I went for a shakedown ride to test the grips' function. I didn't perceive any difference in the driveability of the rig, on that day or any time thereafter. I say this because my selling dealer downloaded the Off Road map to the ECUs on the day of delivery.

What "learned" ECU programming, if any, did I lose when I disconnected the battery?
While I don't have thorough knowledge of the technology, I sort of understand the basic theory.

The ECU is constantly fine tuning the basic programming using the various sensors, the "learned" data is just the unique baseline it works from so it can make those adjustments quicker, and more accurately.

It may take it a few minutes to relearn, but other than for a few moments here and there, the changes will be too fast and subtle to be perceived.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

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