Ural Relay Issue

Welcome Comrade! Pull up a barstool and order yourself a virtual vodka or Baltika and enjoy the camaraderie of other Soviet bloc bike enthusiasts. Nastrovya! This is the place for generic conversations about bikes and life in general.
Forum rules
This is the place for general discussion about motorcycles and life in general. No political posts. Use The "Other" Toy Box section for other bikes, guns, collectibles or hobbies.
cptred
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:38 am
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Ural Relay Issue

Post by cptred » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:09 pm

I have a 2011 GU and I changed the battery and one of the relays under the seat just came apart. I found a possible replacement but I am not sure if it a good match. My knowledge of electrical stuff is zero.

The wiring diagram looks similar but it is not the same.
This is the old one.
old.jpg
This the possible replacement.
new.jpg
The other difference is that the old one says 87a in the center pin but the possible replacement has 87Q.
old1.jpg
new2.jpg
Can I use the new one or do I need to get a different replacement?
Thanks, for the help.
cptred
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Wildhorse Cafe
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:28 pm
Location: King City, California

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by Wildhorse Cafe » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:49 pm

Winner winner chicken dinner, you're good to go!
2011 Patrol Higgs Bison Super Collider formally known as the Orange and Silver Pumpkin Coach.

2013 Black Retro, my name is nobody.

When you set out on your journey to Ithaca
pray the road is long , full of adventure, full of knowledge
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches
Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage

C.P. Cavafy

User avatar
Msblu79
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 1935
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: Invading Upstate NewYorkastan

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by Msblu79 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:51 pm

I think you are fine and can use the new one. The diagram is the same just done differently but means the same thing. The new one appears to have a device across the contacts to prevent arching most likely. Hopefully some of our more electrically savvy guys will correct me if I'm wrong. :)
2010 Black Patrol 90,000km's
Modtop airbox, 2013 branch pipes, Perch rings, Yamaha petcock, Drilled slides, Gossie needles, 145 mains, 45 pilots, insulated manifolds, Modtop pushrods, Dual FMF exhaust, PA Multi-spark system w/ VOES, Spin on filter conversion, 33mpg, Royal Purple fluids.

User avatar
CamaroEric
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:47 am
Location: Arvada, CO

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by CamaroEric » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:08 pm

I agree, you have the correct replacement.

I think your "Q" is just a very large lower case "a" for easy reading and to match the diagram printed on the front.

The 85 to 86 side is the circuit that activates the relay. It has a high load resistor for minimal current draw when the switch is active.
When the switch is active, pin 30 and 87 are connected.
When inactive, 30 and 87a are connected.

Similar relays at many auto parts stores don't have pin 87a and that potential circuit stays open inside the relay. 4-pin vs 5-pin setup, both useful in the correct application. If 87a pin is unused, I prefer to cap it with a bit of heat shrink for safety if pin 30 is 'power in'.
Image
2008 Gear-Up
2012 NC700X
1962 F-100 Flareside 292 4-spd

jeffsaline
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:04 am
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by jeffsaline » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:12 pm

I agree it looks like a good match. Terminals 85 & 86 are the control circuit terminals. Terminal 30 is power into the relay. Terminal 87 connects with terminal 30 when the control circuit is activated. Terminal 87a connects with terminal 30 when the control circuit is not activated.

Best,

Jeff
Jeff Saline
2010 Gear Up
-Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick Two
-Just because something isn't true, no reason you can't believe it. Hub McCann Second Hand Lions
-Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

User avatar
Mr Wazzock
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 5522
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Boston, UK
Contact:

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by Mr Wazzock » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:03 pm

Msblu79 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:51 pm
The new one appears to have a device across the contacts to prevent arching most likely. Hopefully some of our more electrically savvy guys will correct me if I'm wrong. :)
The shape of it implies it is a resistor.

The other options are: none, or a diode.

Lastly, is the coil the correct Voltage – 'cause it it's 24V it won't work and guess how I know :oops:
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

cptred
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:38 am
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by cptred » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:07 pm

I think it is a 12V. Here is the link to what I bought.
https://www.bwdbrand.com/en/ecatalog?pa ... p&search=s

It is the R3074.

User avatar
Mr Wazzock
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 5522
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Boston, UK
Contact:

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by Mr Wazzock » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:15 pm

Yep you're good to go. :thumbsup:
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta
(aka Oranzhevaya Opasnost, "The Orange Peril")

User avatar
GHGoodwin
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 4971
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:43 pm
Location: Cleve, Ohio

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by GHGoodwin » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:35 pm

Check the others and get some spares.
Hal

2011/12 Tourist - "The Russian"
It's a long list.
2014 Patrol - "Blackbird"

User avatar
Desantnik-VDV
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by Desantnik-VDV » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:50 pm

It has 30Amp rating, you should be good. You can verify it by matching your fuse rating as well.
The rest...contacts are matching.
Alex

2007 GearUp bought new with 32km on odo


The rest is just a History:

2014 Ural M70
1998 Honda f6 GL 1500 Valkyrie Tourer /Champion Escort sidecar
1999 Ural Deco Classic/BMW R100 engine
1980 BMW R100RT (2nd Heart Donor for 1999 Deco for more HP)
1983 BMW R80/7 (1st Heart Donor for 1999 Deco)
2002 Ural Barberian Classic
2003 Honda Shadow ACE
1999 Ural BC (went to US circus in Tokyo to adapt a bear driver)

cptred
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:38 am
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by cptred » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:55 pm

Awesome. Thanks everyone.

RC20
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 1334
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am
Location: Anchorage AK

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by RC20 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:16 pm

It looks like the device across the coil is an anti chatter feature.

Not needed in man circuit but highly important in others.
Fear No Gravel
Formerly Owned: ( various rides on others)
Honda 90
2 x CB750K (one a true Japan Model flown to Hawaii by a P3 Orion Sub Patrol Aircraft!)
1 x CB700 SC (RC20 is the actual in house production Model)
1 x R80GS (ok to start with, learned to love it for what it was)
1 x CB450K
1 x 2019 cT Terracotta

Mechanic/Technician/Engineer: Electro Mechanical Systems

User avatar
CamaroEric
Party Member
Party Member
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:47 am
Location: Arvada, CO

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by CamaroEric » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:22 pm

On a side note, if your circuit does not use pin 87a, I would convert to 4 pin solid state relays whenever you can.
I used Panasonic ACVN51212.

Solid state relays are much smaller than standard mechanical relays (this one is 15x15x22mm) and also have no mechanical parts to wear out.

https://www.arrow.com/en/products/acvn51212/panasonic
Image
2008 Gear-Up
2012 NC700X
1962 F-100 Flareside 292 4-spd

User avatar
propwash
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1676
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:45 pm

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by propwash » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:26 pm

RC20 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:16 pm
It looks like the device across the coil is an anti chatter feature.

Not needed in man circuit but highly important in others.
Protection diodes are a good idea if driving with ICs, transistors or micro controllers.
Switches only, not really needed.

User avatar
Wildhorse Cafe
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2019
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:28 pm
Location: King City, California

Re: Ural Relay Issue

Post by Wildhorse Cafe » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:54 pm

79a is the normally closes contac 79 the normally open. The symbol across the coil is a capacitor to shunt the emf when the relay is de-energize. Like I said he is good to go for a five pin relay.
2011 Patrol Higgs Bison Super Collider formally known as the Orange and Silver Pumpkin Coach.

2013 Black Retro, my name is nobody.

When you set out on your journey to Ithaca
pray the road is long , full of adventure, full of knowledge
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches
Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage

C.P. Cavafy

Post Reply