Parking the bike...

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Msblu79
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by Msblu79 » Wed May 27, 2020 10:41 am

Sergey will take care of you and do his magic on your engine. He did mine 8 years ago when it had about 18K klicks on it and failed. Since then I have over 92,000km's on it and it runs like the proverbial swiss watch, a little noisier than a watch but plenty strong like OX, LOL. Best of luck and many happy miles! :moto:
2010 Black Patrol 92,000km's
Modtop airbox, 2013 branch pipes, Perch rings, Yamaha petcock, Drilled slides, Gossie needles, 145 mains, 45 pilots, insulated manifolds, Modtop pushrods & Airbox, Dual FMF exhaust, PA Multi-spark system w/ VOES, Spin on filter conversion, 33mpg, Royal Purple fluids.

HassoBoxhead
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by HassoBoxhead » Wed May 27, 2020 4:38 pm

Thanx all! Although not the greatest news, having a Sergej-rebuilt engine is definitely a plus! Will update once it’s all back together again.
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Snakeoil
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by Snakeoil » Wed May 27, 2020 5:32 pm

I am happy that you have a resolution to your problem. You deserved to have your machine sorted out once and for all.

Now I have to ask, doesn't anyone find the explanation a bit hard to believe. Hot oil weeping from a cam bearing leaks down onto the rear main seal which "heats the seal" and this causes the seal to fail??? If I were to accept this, it would imply that oil seals have a hot side and an cold side and if hot oil gets on the cold side, the seal is toast (soggy toast, but toast). How do I put this without offending?.. Screw it... ARE YOU FRIGGIN KIDDING ME???!!! If hot oil caused shaft seals to fail, we'd be knee deep in motor oil by now. Cars would have to carry 55 gallon drums of oil on the roof to keep running.

In fairness, I suspect HBH might have misunderstood the diagnosis. I know Heindl is a member and posts here so maybe they can shed some light on the hot oil seal failure. :roll:
Regards,
Rob
Proud member of the Peanut Gallery
2000 Ural Tourist
40 Pilots, 122 Mains
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by HassoBoxhead » Wed May 27, 2020 7:57 pm

Ugh, I gave a direct quote from the e-mail that Jon Heindl sent me. Cut and pasted it in fact. How could that translate to me misunderstanding the diagnosis? Seems rather bold.

Also, I looked back over the entire thread here and since my first post in May 2019, the above is the first opinion you’ve offered on my mechanical issue, and you use it to disparage me. Odd, that.
2014 Slate Grey Gear Up «Миша»
Retired Air Force Russian Linguist
“Too Close for Missiles, Switching to Guns”

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Tomcatfixer
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by Tomcatfixer » Wed May 27, 2020 8:40 pm

Rob is very passionate about rear main seals. :P
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2001 Ural Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Ural Tourist "The RPOC", Mid-Nineties Ural Tourist "The Heap", 1994 Honda VFR750F

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two different 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers

HassoBoxhead
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by HassoBoxhead » Wed May 27, 2020 9:51 pm

:D
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jaybird
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by jaybird » Thu May 28, 2020 4:39 am

I don’t think Rob was trying to disparage you HBH, I think he was looking for a way to explain a seemingly questionable diagnosis.
I haven’t commented on your dilemma either but I also found that diagnosis to be a bit questionable, I just figured something was lost in translation somewhere along the line.
I don’t know how it’s accomplished on the newer engines with a roller needle rear cam bearing, but if I remember correctly, on the older engines the cam bushing is “glued” into the block and it can be seen from the outside.
My thought was that when the engine is hot, the difference in expansion rates between the aluminum block and the steel bearing and possibly a lack of sealer, is allowing oil to push past the rear cam bearing and down the back of the engine onto the rear main seal and out the drain hole on the bottom, giving the appearance of a rear main seal leak.
Anyway, glad to see you’re getting your motorcycle fixed, hopefully it won’t be too painful.

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
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Tomcatfixer
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by Tomcatfixer » Thu May 28, 2020 5:01 am

My thought was that when the engine is hot, the difference in expansion rates between the aluminum block and the steel bearing and possibly a lack of sealer, is allowing oil to push past the rear cam bearing and down the back of the engine onto the rear main seal and out the drain hole on the bottom, giving the appearance of a rear main seal leak.
This is exactly what I thought when I read your e-mail transcription, Hasso. Perhaps Jon will chime in to clarify things.
- Chad

Gordonsville, Virginia, USA

Current rides:
2015 Ural cT "Mobile Chernobyl", 2001 Ural Patrol "Little Red Bear", 1999 Ural Tourist "The RPOC", Mid-Nineties Ural Tourist "The Heap", 1994 Honda VFR750F

Previous rides:
2007 Honda VTR1000 FireStorm (Super Hawk in U.S.)
2001 Buell Blast! - - - - - - - 2005 Yamaha FJR1300
1993 Honda CBR600F2 - -1984 Yamaha FJ1100
Two different 1986 Yamaha FZX700S Fazers

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Peter Pan
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by Peter Pan » Thu May 28, 2020 1:35 pm

Valid point from Snake oil.
They all do that.*


*: Specially with synthetic oil. (I use synthetic in transmission and final drive, but to the engine only mineral Dinosaurextract, because in mountain range I prefer engine break over 2 stroker behaviour)

PS: didn't notice, that there have been already 2 more pages written about ... sorry never mind. Welcome in the club :oops:
Sophie Travelair = Patrol 2013
8 weeks 12.000km Oregon-Alaska-Oregon
With a DIY foam air filter the rig runs well even in tropical rain = :moto:
Final drives: 1. at 5000km, 2. at 34.000km(+friction plates) 3. at 42.386km
transmission: 1. 40.000km. 2. installed
Engine: 1. 43.388km crank replacement: Back on the road since 23.Okt.2019 :party:

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Snakeoil
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by Snakeoil » Thu May 28, 2020 2:29 pm

First, my apologies if I gave the impression I was trying to disparage you or anyone else for that matter. I was simply questioning a statement that I found to be a bit difficult to accept. I thought I would have given the impression that I was questioning the diagnosis and not the person when I suspected that you might have misunderstood what Heindl said. I know you used quotes. But some use quotes for effect while not truly quoting verbatim. Hell, even I do that sometimes. So, please understand this was not personal. I rarely make personal statements here unless I'm busting someone's chops for fun. I'm here for the technology... and the witty banter.

So, I went back to the post with the diagnosis from Heindl. The part that I question is "oil to run down onto the rear main seal and then heating the seal causing it to fail.“. Nope, I don't believe that to be possible for a second, unless the hot leaking oil bursts into flames on the way down and BBQ's the rear main seal.

I took had the impression that the oil leak source was the cam bushing until I got to that last piece. Again, in fairness to Heindl, they might have typed this and not read what they typed before they hit send. Or they told an underling at the shop what to put into the email and the underling screwed it up. If I had received that email, I would have been on the phone to them and asked them to read what they sent me and explain it. My guess is that line should have read "oil to run down onto the rear main seal and causing it to appear that the seal had failed.“ The fact that the diagnosis said heating the seal caused it to fail is was simply did not w@$#.

A similar thing happened on my rig, but with the reverse lever seal. I put a new seal in when I rebuilt the motor. But a year later, I had oil dripping from what appeared to be the rear seal. Cutting to the chase, I finally realized it was that damn reverse lever seal. I replaced it with a seal that is 0.5mm smaller (the OEM seal is an odd size) and knock on wood, that solved the problem. But until I had found that leak, I would have sworn the rear seal was leaking.

Please never take anything I say as a personal attack. I don't come here for that. I come here to enjoy myself, help others and help others enjoy themselves. And I would only go after someone if they deserved being called out. That is truly a rarity here. It's a great bunch. I was actually a bit surprised that others did not pick up on that hot oil ruining the rear seal thing and hence my poking of my nose into the problem. I had not commented up until now as I had nothing to contribute that had not already been said. I have been following it, however.
Regards,
Rob
Proud member of the Peanut Gallery
2000 Ural Tourist
40 Pilots, 122 Mains
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

HassoBoxhead
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by HassoBoxhead » Fri May 29, 2020 11:11 am

SnakeOil, I owe you an apology for overreacting to your post. It’s been an extremely frustrating year with the rig. Appreciate the information you shared.
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Snakeoil
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by Snakeoil » Fri May 29, 2020 5:18 pm

No problem, Hasso. Happens to all of us.

I can truly understand your frustration. But now you will soon be enjoying a rock solid motor in a tractor disguised as a motorcycle. I wish you many happy and carefree miles. But then again, it's a Ural... Guess I'm an optimist. :wink:
Regards,
Rob
Proud member of the Peanut Gallery
2000 Ural Tourist
40 Pilots, 122 Mains
Before you say something stupid, always ask yourself, "What would Harpo say?".

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heindlengineeringural
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Re: Parking the bike...

Post by heindlengineeringural » Sat May 30, 2020 10:13 am

Maybe I should have worded the response slightly differently................result is still the same for the diagnosis: main seal is a victim of the source of the leak. Seal is designed to seal one way, if lots of oil is applied to the "dry" side, it works its way past the sealing surface thus allowing even more to come out of the "wet" side thus making a bigger mess and being hard to find the actual source of the leak. Leak Dye is your Friend. :D
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(937) 787-3686
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