Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand

Post by coyote » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:48 am

hotflash44 wrote:i agree with most of what you suggest my job wasent effected by globalization at all, im just trying to say for better or worse its probably to late to change the course of this ship. and i hope the new proposed tariffs are just a bluff to better negotiations. I feel its going to back fire badly. :? :cheers:
I changed it because I realized you might think I meant you personally which I didn’t, I just wasn’t quick enough :D

Well either way, to bring it away from the soapbox, I wouldn’t want to be IMZ US right now, this is something that would keep me up at night, not knowing whether some government decision will wipe out my business overnight.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand

Post by windmill » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:59 am

coyote wrote:And I’m sorry but if someone’s job was given away to a foreign unskilled worker, then they may want to reevaluate their choices
The problem is that there's also significant peripheral loss to supporting vendors, transportation, and small businesses.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand

Post by hotflash44 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:08 am

windmill wrote:
coyote wrote:And I’m sorry but if someone’s job was given away to a foreign unskilled worker, then they may want to reevaluate their choices
The problem is that there's also significant peripheral loss to supporting vendors, transportation, and small businesses.
Agree, cant see how at this point in our history raising tariffs will help. hope its just some bluff/strategy for negotiations. PS and im nowhere near a political progressive! i like the old days minus a few issues. :cheers:
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by Daisy Cutter » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:54 am

Harley has been building the Street and Street Rod (xg500, xg750, xg750a) in India for the Asian market. The same models sold here in the US are "built" in the States but mostly from foreign parts. I own a 2017 street rod and I haven't found a part on it yet that doesn't say "Made in some Asian country" on it but the vin designation indicates it was built in Kansas City. It's also all metric

*This is my opinion ONLY!*
This whole "Poor Harley" thing has been going on for a while. New Harley sales haven't been what they'd like them to be and everyone claims that they aren't targeting young riders. I believe that sales are down because "younger riders" aren't buying new Harleys, they're taking advantage of the overwhelming number of used Harleys available on the secondary market that are nearly new and a lot cheaper. I believe that the Average guy buying a brand new Harley, by the time he gets out the door with his $25k-$40k new hog is afraid to ride it. Afraid that racking up miles will lower the value of his new prized chrome wagon. So after 2-3 years of rolling it out of the garage to w@$# it and ride it 5-10 miles then w@$#ing it again and putting it away until the next sunny weekend he's compelled to sell it. Enter the next generation who cant afford a brand new bike (even though they'll finance one for you for 7 years :shock:) and these sales aren't reflected in Harley's calculations. Personally I believe that Harley is trying to combat this trend by offering crazy high trade in amounts to 1. get people on a new bike and 2. get some of the used ones off of the market.
*Again just my opinion*
Last edited by Daisy Cutter on Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by stagewex » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:11 pm

They announced the closure many weeks ago, way before the tariff's issue was raised. This was in the works for a long time.
And supposedly the foreign made HD's are for the foreign market. It'll be an interesting exercise because in all the travels I have made abroad the pull to HD in every country is that it is "American Made", one of the icons of our identity whether you like them or not.
Will it have that appeal going forward... who knows? Apparently the Company is willing to take that chance.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand

Post by bgenest » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:41 pm

coyote wrote:
I have strong opinions on this based on economics, finance, and business background, but simply fighting to return us to an Industrial Age of unskilled manufacturing is not progress or the way forward. Historically, tariffs are only good for politics, in the end the consumer is the one affected negatively. The world is getting smaller with or without us, and not taking advantage of globalization to our own benefit will quickly see us fall behind the rest of the world.

And I’m sorry but if someone’s job was given away to a foreign unskilled worker, then they may want to reevaluate their choices[/quote]

I agree coyote +1
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by JohnBG » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:21 pm

You guys would be all about it if they moved the H-D plant to Irbit.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by Daisy Cutter » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:09 pm

JohnBG wrote:You guys would be all about it if they moved the H-D plant to Irbit.
:clap:
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by Michal » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:45 pm

Harley already sells made in India 750cc bikes in Europe. HD has never been known for high quality standards but "made in India" has even much worse reputation than "made in China".

If there will ever be prohibitive tariff on Russian production, you would not get parts shortage because majority of Ural parts are already made outside Russia, mostly by western companies. If Russia gets isolated, it would be easier to build Urals outside Russia than inside because you can find a mid-size business already bending and welding tubes in every industrial city and alu foundry in every country.

Regarding job outsourcing, you cannot do much with that when equal skilled employees in other countries are willing to work for fraction of your wage and all products compete at the same market. The only long term result is that wages in cheap industrial countries rises and your does not (or even decreases with currency exchange rate).

Regarding that "unskilled manufacturing is not progress or the way forward", every nation got considerable amount of people not capable to learn any useful skill. You need some jobs for such type of citizens in every country of the world.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by BlueRockCrawler » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:10 am

I feel bad for Harley, they are almost held hostage by their customers. The 600+ pound cruiser market is drying up, and anytime they try to make a modern bike, the wailing and crying from the base is so loud, they just give in and quit. The firebolt xb12r was a beast, the V-rod is an actual modern motorcycle, but neither sold and both were derided by the baby boomer pirate wannabees as "not a real Harley". Look at Gobi is acting like a frothing fanboy and talking shite on the Livewire "it's not a motorbike without 2-1 exhaust" or something to that effect in another thread. :lol: Add to that the fact that the used market is inundated with very low mileage, very shiny bikes, and they might be in real trouble.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by lee 303 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:53 am

Labor costs may or may not be that significant on choosing whether to relocate to another nation or even interstate. Not that long ago (1990) Johnson Controls maker of the Die Hard battery was in front of the SCOTUS defending a well intentioned but legally flawed policy that prevented women of the of childbearing age from working in hazardous assembly area.The women were members of the U.A.W. who brought the suit against Johnson Controls. Meanwhile salvage batteries were exported to PRC vast heaps were doused with fuel and set on fire to burn off the cases, the electrolyte and heavy metals that didn't vaporize seeped into the ground water. After the open air burning the slag is scooped out and processed into new batteries. Fifteen years later The World Is Flat was a best seller even if the title should have been The Uneven Playing Field of environmental,labor,intellectual property laws.
One of the first U.S.companies to relocate to PRC was built on the wreckage of the GM owned Hyatt bearing. When the CEO of General Bearing tried to relocate the plant to Upstate New York the projected time line for permitting played a major role in his decision to move the factory equipment from New Jersey to PRC. Today the former factory site is leased to the Hyatt Hills municipal golf course. GM saved millions by capping over the environmental damage and restricting it's use to recreational use.
I bet it's safe to say that a generation from now the Red Chinese will start going green after some of the costs unfettered industry become appreciable.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by hotflash44 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:05 am

:rant: :koolaid: :pot: the world is out of control,were doomed! afraid we have allowed everything to go down that proverbial slippery slope and i don't think we can climb back up.people of the very near future hang on, for a rough ride! Seems half the voting public and the current POTUS are trying to clime the slope to make America the country it once was, a daunting task, full of possible land mines. God Bless America i wish her well. :cheers:
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by Bilgekeeldave » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:03 am

What is PRC?
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by windmill » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:20 am

Bilgekeeldave wrote:What is PRC?
People's Republic of China
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Re: Harley-Davidson Close a Wisconsin Factory to Move Production to Thailand?

Post by scottmastrocinque » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:22 am

Bilgekeeldave wrote:What is PRC?
People's Republic of China. - I believe.
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