Help identifying my bike

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Lmo
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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by Lmo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:41 pm

I am totally aware that there are haters here too
You sure as hell missed your call on this one.
Those carbs don't look paricularly clean and healthy. In the pics they don't even have the fuel lines hooked up.
Exactly how does an honest evaluation, and a clear observation turn into "hate"?
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Re: RE: Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by ndanl » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:55 pm

Lmo wrote:
I am totally aware that there are haters here too
You sure as hell missed your call on this one.
Those carbs don't look paricularly clean and healthy. In the pics they don't even have the fuel lines hooked up.
Exactly how does an honest evaluation, and a clear observation turn into "hate"?
agree, sorry for "hate", wasn't the right word.

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by GregAus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:22 am

Claus wrote:There are factory adapters available made from alloy to make the use of K65 or K63 or K68 carbs possible.
IMZ has never made these adaptors. They may have sold them, but they never made them. That honour goes to KBMTS, a company founded by a former factory engineer. Nowadays there are many copies, mostly crap!

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by GregAus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:48 am

Just how many people commenting in this thread have owned an M-63. My best guess is zero!! How the hell you can comment on a bike made 47 or so years ago without any knowledge is beyond me. Some of you may have owned a IMZ-8.103 made decades later, though extremely few, and yet you feel qualified to offer opinions. At least preface your mostly useless opinions with IMO or IMHO. It is like the profusion of comments about KMZ/Dneprs made by IMZ/Ural owners. Another waste of time and space. Claus, you do know that a Г-414 can produce 12V with a suitable voltage regulator? You do know that the Г-424 rectifies internally and regulates externally? Why comment when you're ignorant? ndanl you will probably get more informed answers on the Russian Iron forum than here. For early IMZ/Urals this forum is a WOFTAM!

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VWK75S
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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by VWK75S » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:53 am

ndanl wrote:I am totally aware that there are haters here too.
Not sure that's true, but with a spark I'd try something stupid. :foilhead:
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Claus
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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by Claus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:17 am

GregAus, I know, that this type of 6V generator can produce 12 V with a suitable regulator , some of my english comrades use it like this. And I know exactly how it works because it´s my learned occupation . Assuming I have no clue and am ignorant (no, not assuming but stating) is rude and I have no idea why you do that. In fact, I don´t care.
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by GregAus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:17 am

Claus wrote:GregAus, I know, that this type of 6V generator can produce 12 V with a suitable regulator , some of my english comrades use it like this. And I know exactly how it works because it´s my learned occupation . Assuming I have no clue and am ignorant (no, not assuming but stating) is rude and I have no idea why you do that. In fact, I don´t care.
Claus to salve your hurt pride, from your occupational experience, can a Г-414 produce 12V with a Г-424 regulator or similar? As to being rude, I'm not the person that stated a Г-414 cannot work with a 12V regulator. As you later stated it happens in the English speaking world. All I care about is that this person can get his bike running.

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by Claus » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:32 pm

As I sometimes find out, my English is not as good as it should be. So I will keep my mouth shut in future.
What I want to say to answer your question about the regulators is:
The G-414 generator distributes it´s current (and tension) over the commutator (in simple words the rotor) to the battery. The stator excites the rotor. The G- 424 alternator distributes it´s current (and tension) over the stator winding, the rotor excites the stator.

To excite a alternator stator winding you need an electric magneto (the rotor) that is switched on and off by the regulator (the two copper slip rings on the rotor are the connection needed to excite the rotor, to switch it on). The alternator needs a rectifier to generate DV voltage.
The commutator (the slotted copper ring on the generator´s rotor) has to deliver the whole current while the slip rings on the alternator´s rotor just have to "conduct" the excitation of the rotor (can´t describe it more precise in English). The commutator rectifies the current (in simple words)
The G 424 Alternator needs a regulator that just switches on the rotor with little effort while the regulator of the G 414 Generator has to limit the current that is put out of the commutator and excite the "stator" (the flat coil that is mounted to the outer case)

For this reason a generator regulator is different to a alternator regulator. And for this reason a alternator regulator would not work to excite a generator properly and is not made for limiting the current. That´s why I doubt the (what I recognize as a) alternator regulator would work properly with the generator visible on the pictures.

I might be wrong with the regulator type. The thread opener will find it out once he got the bike started and sees if the battery gets charged or not.
owned bikes: 93 Ural rig domestic model, 95 Suzuki DR 650 RSE, BMW R100GS, Suzuki GSX1100G rig, BMW R100R rig with Ural sidecar, Ural rig with BMW drivetrain under construction,

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by ndanl » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:30 am

Hi guys, so I removed most of the the small parts and such next thing is to remove the wheels and the engine, I also bought a gearbox and air filter for it, for €70, the owner said it was a spare gearbox but he sold his ural.

As far as I can tell all the removed electrical parts were for 12V, I am not sure if the alternator output is really 6V or 12V, probably I have to test it.Image

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by propwash » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:12 am

GregAus wrote:Just how many people commenting in this thread have owned an M-63.
Now there is one :D

The following things are incorrect for a M63
- fuel tank
- carbs
- tranny
- small things, like regulator, brake switch and possibly, do I see spring under seat?

Hard to see all from the pictures.

The M63 would have the banded tank, K301s, a tranny with integrated metal air filter, rear brake switch on the brake pedal shaft, rubber cushioned seat and a big electro mechanical regulator.
Does the engine have a filter in front? The M63 did not.

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by ndanl » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:52 pm

from what I know from the previous owner I can tell that he wanted to install a new seat and he removed the seat support from the frame, I am not sure if I can remake the old seat support.

How does the M63 tank look like?

The K301 carbs were replaced with the K65 indeed

The original tranny was broken and replace with an M72 and hardly modified the housing.

The previous owner tried to replace old parts with parts he found to buy, he did not care much about what he bought.

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by gobium » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:54 pm

That is not m63
It is a bmw-36

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by ndanl » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:08 pm

from what I saw in this post http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/937921/ the frame looks exactly like mine so frame definitely M63, also the tank looks similar to me and rear suspension looks similar too, the alternator has something written in Russian language also there is a plate on the frame in Russian language but the numbers from the plate are hard to read will try to clean the plate...

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by propwash » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:20 pm

There may be variations on some parts but here is a graphic of a M63 aka Ural2.
Image

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Re: Help identifying my bike

Post by GregAus » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:36 pm

The alternator output as standard with a Relay Regulator PP-302 will output a nominal 6V. If it is in good condition you can use a 12V regulator to output 12V. Most people use a H-D or VW regulator for their 12V generators and hide it in the Bakelite box of the PP-302. Alternatively, if you've got the skills you can make an electronic regulator for either 6 or 12V. http://vurd.name/2014/06/28/электронный ... ор-рр-302/ use google chrome or similar to translate.
propwash wrote: The following things are incorrect for a M63
- fuel tank
- carbs
- tranny
- small things, like regulator, brake switch and possibly, do I see spring under seat?

Hard to see all from the pictures.

The M63 would have the banded tank, K301s, a tranny with integrated metal air filter, rear brake switch on the brake pedal shaft, rubber cushioned seat and a big electro mechanical regulator.
Does the engine have a filter in front? The M63 did not.
Early M-63 did not have the banded tank, they continued using the tank from the M-62 as on this bike. Very early M-63 also used the M-62 mudguards (fenders) with a different rear guard mounting system. Prototype M-63 even had rear shock mounts similar to the BMW /2 and early brochures showed the bike with those shock mounts. The 1969 M-63 brought into Australia had these tanks (mostly), the 1971 models had the banded tanks (mostly).

The generator should have on the front cover -
Г 414 6В65ВТ
ГОСТ. 3940-XX (for a year)
СДЕЛАНO В СССР
In the middle should be the manufacture, in my case ОЗАТЭ.
On the rear are the letters Ш & Я.

The plate on the headstock should have -
IMZ logo in a circle
ГОСТ 7635-59 (Standard built to)
МОДЕЛЬ М-63 (Model)
ГОД ВЫПУСКА (Year of Manufacture)
МОТОЦИКЛ № (Frame Number)
ДВИГАТЕЛЬ № (Engine Number)
РАБ.ОБЪЕМ 649 cm3 (Working Volume)
СДЕЛАНО В СССР (Made in USSR)

New plate from http://www.oldtimergarage.eu/catalog/pr ... ts_id=1810 Aluminium, not the original steel.

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