Ducati Ignition - Anybody installed one?

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Ducati Ignition - Anybody installed one?

Postby JohnBG » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:26 pm

I got my CARE package from Holopaw Gene today. Icluded was a Ducati ignition to try replacing my type V with.

Looks like it's gonna be a heckuva job to install this igntion. I broke open the instructions to start reading them, but it's a parts list just and a a few sentences and some photocopied pictures (click on below attachments for details).

Anybody ever retrofit a type V igntion with a Ducati and got any pointers to share? How do ya check and set the timing with this igniton? Where did you tap in the power?

It looks like I gotta remove the gas tank and drill a mounting hole for the coil, and somewhere I gotta tap power into the ignition module.

I smell another JohnBG write-up coming on. :lol:

Here's some pictures of the Ducati parts:
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Postby pigdog » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:23 pm

Those instructions look as clear as mud to me!!!!! :shock:
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Postby QBall » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:32 pm

Sorry John, I will post what I did on my repacemsnt. It is not a big deal to take apart an replace. The harness looks like just the coil - pickup -alterantor and ignition module. If you like PM me and I will give you a phone number to talk about it as well. I have pictures of the pickup replacement but thats not a big deal. You should be able to swap out in 2 hours.

PS: ignore the instructions after yo read the electrical hook up part. Some things are easier to do than to write up.
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Postby csbdr » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:10 pm

mmmmm....fg.4 Russian spaghetti :lol: .
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Postby dmobrien2001 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:06 pm

According to Gene, you time the thing with a timing light at idle (<800 rpm). Then according to the "experts" you need a timing light with full advance measurement and then check the total advance. Should be 28-32 IIRC. The timing mark is seen through the little hole you use to find TDC when adjusting the valves. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Mark ICT » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:31 pm

I put a Ducatti ign on my 2002 Tourist. It was a simple install. I did have problems seeing the pictures on the instruction sheets, they looked like a copy of a copy of a copy, very blurry. I also replaced some of the harware with stainless nuts and bolts. You will need a timing light.

My bike runs so much better, I no longer have strange low and high speed idle problems or the igniton cutting out.

Now I have a one piece interupter for the Russian system collecting dust.

Good luck on the install, hope it cures the Raven.
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Postby Peter » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:06 pm

But you need to statically time it first in order to get it running.

There should be an LED or something.

If there isn't, you need a test light or multimeter to make sure that the circuit opens right at the timing mark or TDC (while turning the baseplate clockwise in the Ural, if I'm not mistaken) depending on the advance curve (not being able to look at the curve is a bummer, but the instructions should have some information).
If that information is not available start with opening just a few degrees before TDC.
It's generally better to err on the side of too little advance to avoid backfire. That'll put you in the ballpark to get it started.

Put a nice white mark on TDC and on the timing mark (offset them to not get confused). Then you take the timing light and bring the timing mark into the center at idle (timing light at zero). After that, confirm full advance by bringing the rpm up and adjusting the timing light advance until the TDC mark (not the timing mark!) is centered.
Read off full advance on the timing light and adjust the baseplate as necessary.
You need to be absolutely sure about the acceptable range of advance; 28-32 degrees before TDC sounds right but I would confirm that.

Don't worry if the timing mark is not perfectly centered at idle after adjusting full advance. As long as it idles ok it's fine. It is much more important to have full advance correct.

And yes, you need a timing light with adjustable delay because there is only this small opening in the case and no scale.

That's the general procedure I use for timing adjustments.
Works on anything, with minor variations.
I'd really like to see instructions specific to the Ducati ignition posted here.
I hope I have not muddied the water further. I thought I could write this in four or five sentences...
In any case it should only take a few minutes to do and it really is much simpler than it looks written down.

I would appreciate if my errors were pointed out.


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Postby Matt » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:34 pm

Your instructions have pictures mine just had the russian/english text.

The instillation is really straight forward, it took me probably on hour to put on and 30 minutes to get the pieces where I wanted them.

My coil is still zip tied to the frame member, have not gotten around to drilling yet. A JohnBG style hole in the top of the plastic ignition coil will route things coming out of the cover perfectly. I could not fit the module on the rear fender bolt, but it fit under the seat above the battery perfectly no issues with clearance. There seems to be alot of wire inbetween components but they zip tie up under the fuel tank well.

I had this ignition on the Ocala forest run.
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Postby QBall » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:29 am

My module in behind / above the battery as well. I do not have the version with th LED on the sensor pickup so you need to check position while setting up. I marked both the timing marks on the fly wheel with white paint. after dry I marked the appropriate on with sharpie pen. It shows up real nice with the timing light (harbor freight - $9.95)
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Postby JohnBG » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:03 pm

Mark ICT wrote:I put a Ducatti ign on my 2002 Tourist. It was a simple install. I did have problems seeing the pictures on the instruction sheets, they looked like a copy of a copy of a copy, very blurry. I also replaced some of the harware with stainless nuts and bolts. You will need a timing light.

My bike runs so much better, I no longer have strange low and high speed idle problems or the igniton cutting out.


Yep, I am having those weird idle speeds too. Also sometimes holding the speed constant in 4th gear at 55mph on a flat road with no wind is an issue. BillyG did some adjustments to my carbs and cables last weekend when we went off-road riding. It's a little better but still not right.

Yes the copies of the pictures are as clear as mud. Where did you tap in power for the ignition? It lookls like I gotta get a +12VDC feed to the unit. Maybe where the old unit plugs into? The instructions weren't very clear on that.

I was going to install the ignition yesterday, but the missus' car needed brakes to I was working on her car.
Last edited by JohnBG on Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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History: '98.5 Ural Tourist - "Valentina" - Gone but not forgotten...

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Postby JohnBG » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:07 pm

Peter wrote:But you need to statically time it first in order to get it running.

There should be an LED or something.

If there isn't, you need a test light or multimeter to make sure that the circuit opens right at the timing mark or TDC (while turning the baseplate clockwise in the Ural, if I'm not mistaken) depending on the advance curve (not being able to look at the curve is a bummer, but the instructions should have some information).
If that information is not available start with opening just a few degrees before TDC.
It's generally better to err on the side of too little advance to avoid backfire. That'll put you in the ballpark to get it started.

Put a nice white mark on TDC and on the timing mark (offset them to not get confused). Then you take the timing light and bring the timing mark into the center at idle (timing light at zero). After that, confirm full advance by bringing the rpm up and adjusting the timing light advance until the TDC mark (not the timing mark!) is centered.
Read off full advance on the timing light and adjust the baseplate as necessary.
You need to be absolutely sure about the acceptable range of advance; 28-32 degrees before TDC sounds right but I would confirm that.

Don't worry if the timing mark is not perfectly centered at idle after adjusting full advance. As long as it idles ok it's fine. It is much more important to have full advance correct.

And yes, you need a timing light with adjustable delay because there is only this small opening in the case and no scale.

That's the general procedure I use for timing adjustments.
Works on anything, with minor variations.
I'd really like to see instructions specific to the Ducati ignition posted here.
I hope I have not muddied the water further. I thought I could write this in four or five sentences...
In any case it should only take a few minutes to do and it really is much simpler than it looks written down.

I would appreciate if my errors were pointed out.


Peter


I don't see any LED on the Ducati box like there is on the type IV or V hockey puck.

I have a timing light with an advance dial, but no tachometer. How do I know what RPM I need to get full advance? :?

Once I do install this, I will do a write-up with pictures. It may be later in the week or next weekend before I get the opportunity to do it. I was busy working on my wife's car yesterday and this afternoon is booked with a family event.
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History: '98.5 Ural Tourist - "Valentina" - Gone but not forgotten...

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Postby Peter » Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:20 pm

The advance curve should flatten out somewhere, that would then be maximum advance and "should" be well before max rpm (3-4000 or so).
You can find it by finding the point where advance doesn't increase with increasing rpm anymore. You don't have to hold the throttle open, you just want to see the mark holding steady for a moment while rpm is going up and down above max advance rpm when revving the engine. In the Ural with the small window that would then be the only time when you can see the mark when quickly revving up then closing the throttle.
In other words, the mark is only visible as long as rpm is above max advance rpm with the timing light adjusted at actual advance.
That's also where having the curve is nice but it works even without.
Unless the curve is not flat beyond a certain rpm, then you definitely need a tachometer and very detailed documentation.
Do the instructions tell you at what rpm max advance is reached?

Peter

edit: you can chase the TDC mark by slowly opening the throttle and keeping the mark centered by simultaneously adjusting the timing light dial. You need center the TDC mark first at idle and then open the throttle gradually. At some point, no more adjustment at the timing light is needed while rpm is still going up - that's full advance. This should help if you can't see the mark at all when revving and the timing light adjusted to expected full advance range.
Again, this is not Ural/Ducati specific but general procedure.
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WTF is this?

Postby Peter » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:20 pm

A serious discussion of the Ducati ignition and timing issues is found in the "WTF is this?" thread.

Don't ask ...

:lol:


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Re: WTF is this?

Postby JohnBG » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:35 pm

Peter wrote:A serious discussion of the Ducati ignition and timing issues is found in the "WTF is this?" thread.

Don't ask ...

:lol:


Peter


Yes I found that...
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Postby BillyG » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:06 pm

You know John...I bet your rpm issue is linked to whatever caused your ignition to short out while using the metal cover. With the plastic cover, it won't short out, just whiffels the rpm's a bit...finding it would make a great science project for some kid :lol:
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