BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

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SixGunner
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BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby SixGunner » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:37 pm

OK, I am on day two to doing to full check out of my new used 2002/03 Tourist. Checking lights and switches today while my carb parts are soaking. I find the bike brake light not working. Driving light is working but no brake light. Brake lights on the hack are working fine. Remove cover to take a peak......

So this is what it looks like with the key on........

BRAKE LIGHT 1.gif



Brake Applied........

BRAKE LIGHT 2.gif



OK thinking bad bulb........switch bulbs to check. Key on (NO BRAKE APPLIED)

BRAKE LIGHT 3.gif



Brake Applied........

BRAKE LIGHT 4.gif



Secondary observation.......Neither light will illuminate unless both bulbs are in their sockets.

Can any one explain this and how to fix it. I know its not a switch issue because both brakes do the exact thing when applied.

Thanks!
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby chaos2 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:05 pm

that looks different than mine. if the brown is the ground and the green is the brake light shouldn't there be a 3rd (yellow) wire for the running light?
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby chaos2 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:11 pm

maybe that's not brown and the ground is hidden? I know they reverse the polarity just to confuse us :lol:
past afflictions include TR motocars and bikes, R60/2 & a R65, MGs, and a Citroen.
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby mtrdrms » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:36 pm

Does the small bulb have 2 filaments?
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby Buckhorn » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:10 am

Has it worked with these exact bulbs before? If it has then maybe there's a bad ground. If not, they may be the wrong bulbs. The large one (brake) is different than the sidecar bulb.
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby ReCycled » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:54 am

Lower socket is the smaller and lower wattage running light acting as it should.

Upper socket is brake light and certainly appears to simply be a bad bulb.
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby Obo Scribe » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:02 am

ReCycled wrote:Lower socket is the smaller and lower wattage running light acting as it should.

Upper socket is brake light and certainly appears to simply be a bad bulb.


But the running light should stay on when the brake is applied...
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby Lmo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:53 am

POSTED FOR REFERENCE

This is your wiring diagram... or at least it's supposed to be... I've learned one can never know for sure with these machines.

green = brake light
yellow = running light (tail light)

they only work when both bulbs are inserted because the "ground" passes through both bulbs.
edit - the front brake light switch is part of this circuit, check connections there as well.
edit - both wires (green and yellow (it isn't brown) are "hot", edit - WHEN energized by their respective switch
the ground is through the frame.
Image
edit - diagram source: http://myural.com/2002_750cc_wiring_schematic.htm (better resolution)
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby Mr Wazzock » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:22 pm

Looks like you have a bad earth in the rear light, or loose earth wire.

The tail light bulb is getting an earth only thru the brake light bulb, and then the sidecar's brake light bulb. When 12V is also put onto those, the tail light bulb goes out because there is 12V on both sides of the filament.

Only the small bulb lights because the brake bulbs are 21W, but the tail bulb is only 5W, so it lights up, but the brake bulbs don't, acting just as earth returns.

Hope that makes sense!

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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby Mr Wazzock » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:27 pm

PS: this is very like the weird affects that are sometimes seen for car rear lights, where one or both of the rear light units loses an earth connection, you get things like brake lights flashing on and off in tandem but opposite to the amber turn indicator, and that sort of thing.
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby SixGunner » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:51 pm

Thanks for all the info. I was going to pull the tank and start chasing wires this past Sunday or torrential rain put an end to that. I'll try again this Sunday.
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby iwrench2 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:52 pm

By a good test light NAPA or Snap on and a continuity tester you can test any bulb or circuit
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby iwrench2 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:57 pm

someone put-up a wiring circut take your one step at a time
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby rougaroo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:11 pm

The ground for the rear lights is a very common problem. The lights are grounded through the taillight fixture through the top left bolt as you're facing the rear of the bike. Crud, corrosion, and general junk can foul the ground to the frame there.

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Last edited by rougaroo on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BRAKE LIGHT CONFUSION?????

Postby ReCycled » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:10 am

rougaroo wrote:A very common problem is the ground for the lights. They are grounded through the taillight fixture through the top left bolt as you're facing the rear of the bike. Crud, corrosion, and general junk can foul the ground to the frame there.

Rougaroo



This will be the problem and solution.

Sorry, I hadn't noticed the running light going out when brake applied. That is due to the difference in wattage/resistance because it's as if they are wired in series DUE TO THE BAD GROUND. No doubt, it is a bad ground right at the light assembly... No need to pull tank or chase wires.

Another vote for using a good test LIGHT for troubleshooting. A digital voltmeter is too sensitive and can show full voltage even with a poor ground connection.
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