Kick starting EFI rig

Welcome Comrade! Pull up a barstool and order yourself a virtual vodka or Baltika and enjoy the camaraderie of other Soviet bloc bike enthusiasts. Nastrovya! This is the place for generic conversations about bikes and life in general.
Forum rules
This is the place for general discussion about motorcycles and life in general. No political posts. Use The "Other" Toy Box section for other bikes, guns, collectibles or hobbies.
User avatar
windmill
Order of Victory
Order of Victory
Posts: 5685
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:17 am
Location: Kent, Wa

Kick starting EFI rig

Postby windmill » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:22 am

I've seen many comments that the EFI rigs are difficult or impossible to kick start when cold,, and I've tried a few times over the past week without success.

Seems my fatal mistake was trying to do it like my carb rig, a steady modest "push" on the kick start with a touch of throttle... It just doesn't work.

After some trial and error I finally figured it out, and can successfully kick start my EFI rig every time.
Don't touch the throttle, slowly push the kick start until it hits a compression stroke, let it go all the way back up, get a firm footing on the kick start and really jump on it with a brisk, solid KICK like I used to on an old Indian or thumpers I've had over the years.

My new rig has made me rethink, and relearn a few things.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018 M70

User avatar
jaybird
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1280
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:41 am
Location: The foothills of the Forked River Mountains, West Barnegat NJ (Do It In The Pines!) 08005

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby jaybird » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:51 am

windmill wrote:My new rig has made me rethink, and relearn a few things.


I got that with my current wife, of course after 20+ years (I should know how many) I'm still trying to figure out who's kickstarting whom?

Happy trails,
Jaybird
2005 Gear-Up, Mr. Nat_ural 108,000+ Kilometers and counting
2013 Retro, Black beauty, AKA Lucky "13"
1995 Olive Tourist
1975 Enfield Diesel Bullet
2008 Enfield Bullet 500
1974 BMW R 75/6
Etc.

eastbloc
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:46 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby eastbloc » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:56 am

Yup. Not touching the throttle is key. You need those butterflies to be all the way closed or you can fuggedaboutit. I find that even the slight tension in the throttle cables from the handlebar position, while not enough to appreciably change the idle, is enough to affect whether it will be possible to kickstart the bike.

It becomes progressively harder to do this as the temperatures drop.

You also have different throttle bodies on your '18 rig which may have an effect on outcome.
'14 Gear Up
'00 Bavarian Classic

User avatar
Mr Wazzock
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 2237
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Boston, UK
Contact:

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby Mr Wazzock » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:02 pm

windmill wrote:let it go all the way back up, get a firm footing on the kick start and really jump on it with a brisk, solid KICK

Yep, read somewhere needs to be turning 300 - 400 rpm else ECU's don't know anything's happening, so will do sweet diddly-squat. Viz, no injection, no sparks.

Me having the UK version, the kick start arm hits the brake pedal linkage for the sidecar, which is on the left, plus the kick start arm itself has a tab on it which is meant to limit it's travel when this tab touches the frame (which has a rubber stop for it), to prevent it hitting the brake link (but which it still fails to do actually). In either event, the travel is severely restricted hence I can't kick start mine, as can't get it to turn with enough speed. :(


-
Mike H
2016 Ural cT, in glorious terracotta

hotflash44
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 2623
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby hotflash44 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:30 pm

think Hiendl Ural has a YouTube video on exactly what Windmill said.
drive a 2016 gear up asphalt grey .Air America CIA circa 1967/8 Vung Tau Viet Nam USS Tutuila ARG-4 (AND JUST A TOUCH OF AGENT ORANGE!)

solo1966
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:19 pm
Location: Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby solo1966 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:04 am

Mine will kick start after you have ridden for a while. Have never managed to kick start first in the morning.
:foilhead: Love my GOD,country,and fear my government,2017 GU

User avatar
Albuquralque
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 18849
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:46 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby Albuquralque » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:27 am

"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

User avatar
Albuquralque
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 18849
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:46 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby Albuquralque » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:27 am

And a blast from the past:




"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

eastbloc
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:46 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby eastbloc » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:57 am

Albuquralque wrote:


Any fool can do it to a warmed-up bike. I'd like to see someone do it to a cold bike on the first kick. Or the fifth, or tenth. Or at all, when it's freezing outside.

My first few Urals were kick-start only and would start on the first or second kick in any weather providing you choked them correctly.
'14 Gear Up
'00 Bavarian Classic

User avatar
Albuquralque
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Hero of the Soviet Union - 2017
Posts: 18849
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:46 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby Albuquralque » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:39 pm

"Put a little gravel in your travel"

Darrell - Albuquralque
2014 Patrol - Babe the Blue Ox
EFI Map OR 1.02
Throttle Body Vacuum Ports
K&N Air Filter
Raceway 2-into-1 Header (Right Side)
Previous Urals Owned: 2004 Wolf, 2006 Tourist, 2006 Patrol (TOW), 2006 Patrol (TOM)

eastbloc
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:46 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby eastbloc » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:55 pm

Well you can color me impressed. Mine doesn't do that, for whatever reason, but your video gives me hope that it's possible somehow.

I don't think technique is the issue in my case. I've been kicking Urals for the better part of two decades and I know how to find the top of the compression stroke.

I wonder what other variables are in play. You do have the OR map, which I do not, and likely more klicks on the odometer, which would make the engine a little looser and easier to kick over.

It's worth mentioning that my machine doesn't like to start even with the electric starter. It usually takes at least two or three cranks to get it going. It definitely improved after I replaced the butterflies, but it remains one of the more annoying aspects of my Gear-Up.
'14 Gear Up
'00 Bavarian Classic

User avatar
windmill
Order of Victory
Order of Victory
Posts: 5685
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:17 am
Location: Kent, Wa

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby windmill » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:59 pm

eastbloc wrote: I'd like to see someone do it to a cold bike on the first kick. Or the fifth, or tenth. Or at all, when it's freezing outside.

I've successfully cold kick started my M70 on the first try at temperatures as low as 29 degrees, and in the upper 30's after sitting all day out in the rain and fog.
Now that I've got the technique down,, it seems temperature has little to do with it. It's all about kicking it over with unhesitating gusto to spin it up to the 300-400 rpm the EFI system is looking for, as mentioned in the manual.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018 M70

eastbloc
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:46 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby eastbloc » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:06 pm

You're saying I should read the manual? :)

How's the EFI performance with those newfangled throttle bodies on the 2017-2018 bikes? Any surging at low engine speeds?
'14 Gear Up
'00 Bavarian Classic

eastbloc
Order of Lenin
Order of Lenin
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:46 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby eastbloc » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:09 pm

Wouldn't getting it to _any_ RPM imply you would need to be kicking it over hard enough to go through _two_ compression strokes?
'14 Gear Up
'00 Bavarian Classic

User avatar
windmill
Order of Victory
Order of Victory
Posts: 5685
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:17 am
Location: Kent, Wa

Re: Kick starting EFI rig

Postby windmill » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:03 pm

eastbloc wrote:You're saying I should read the manual? :)

How's the EFI performance with those newfangled throttle bodies on the 2017-2018 bikes? Any surging at low engine speeds?


Well......I did......after someone else mentioned it..... :P

No surging, but I can get it to skip a tiny bit at really low speed with no load if I just barely crack the throttle.
I played with it a little bit and think it's the 2 post splitter cables inability to start moving at exactly the same time, as the left cable seems to have a little more drag due to its routing. It's very minor and isn't apparent in normal riding.
Barry

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".

2007 Patrol 100k km and counting,
2018 M70


Return to “The Virtual Watering Hole”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 13 guests